M
Mysongs777@aol.
New member
This is my first time here.I just want to know or get other songwriters ideas on how a song should go.How to start a song etc.Could someone help me PLEASE!!!!
joro
The Pie Guy
Mysongs777@aol. said:
No rules man......
just recipes,....formulas,........
Lyrically,
I start with the hook (almost always in the Chorus)
and write from there....
1st verse
2nd verse
Chorus
3rd verse
4th verse (sometimes)
Bridge
Chorus (sometimes x2)
Rhymn scheme...
I try to keep it ABAB as much as possible...
AABB seems corny to me for some reason...
Verses seem to move about a bit now and then....
it's funny how they can go in different order sometimes...
4 line verse.........
4 to 6 line chorus.......
If a Bridge is written...it's usually 2 lines...
Prosody, alliteration and meter are always of concern...
I try not to use words that I would not use in normal conversation....
I try not to be poetic...
I try to use metaphors...
Above all...I try not to be cheesey or use cliches....
Musically,
I start with the Harmony, which is ass backwards to most folk...
I work out the melody, meter and rhythmn afterwards...
Then I structure it to fit the lyrical model above...as a guideline anyways....
Welcome to the Boards......
Take it easy man,
Joe
badgas
New member
Joro Spoke the Truth.
No Rules.
Anything can go as long as your happy with it.
Let the song come to you, don't try to push it if your new to writing songs.
Take your time.
There is more to writing a song than adding words to a melody and music.
Let your 'Muse', your inspiration, you inner feelings, at the time do most of the work.
I use to record every practice session I ever did. I ended up with a box of over 2,700 cassettes.
Now, I have it set to record, and all I have to do it hit pause.
I recommed you have a recorder of somesort close by when you practice your instrument.
I also recommend a mini cassette recorder to carry with you when you get an idea for a title, words, theme of a song, hum a riff, hum a melody, what ever. Don't count on your memory to remember what you just thought of. You'll lose is quicker than you thought of it.
Keep your ideas in an organized file system where you can go to them when your muse has a case of the jaws at you and refuses you her help. Keep everything for a while, that you think of while working on a song. Just because it don't fit in 'My First Song' doesn't mean it won't fit in 'My Seventh Song'.
My problem is working on other peoples stuff. Nothing I do, no words, ryhmes, melody,,,, etc, nothing, is good enough.
One my own, I'm carefree, though.
Relax, take your time on a song. Some songs take only minutes to write, others months or longer.
It's finished when you decide it is.
As Joro stated, there are NO RULES.
Follow that rule and you'll do just fine.
By the way, if you get a chance to listen to some of Joro's material, lend an ear. He definitly has a way with words.
Good luck
Oh, yeah, I reread Joro's post, about how he builds a song.
I start with a chordal arragement. If anything happens for me at that point, it will be the melody and the lyrics. In other words, I work on the chords, lyrics, melody and meter all at one time.
A Rough Draft.
I go back and edit what ever I feel is weakest in the song. Then I add tempo after I'm happy with what I have so far.
I change the tempo around for a while, listening, changing, etc till I feel comfortable with it.
Sometimes at this point I change the key or a chord or two.
Then I add the drums. My weakest area in music.
Then bass, back vocals, leads, key, harp, spoons, clapping, cursing, whatever, not in any order.
Hope it gives you an idea that anything goes. Do what's comfortable for you.
Rock On,
Boogie Down,
and Jelly Out.
No Rules.
Anything can go as long as your happy with it.
Let the song come to you, don't try to push it if your new to writing songs.
Take your time.
There is more to writing a song than adding words to a melody and music.
Let your 'Muse', your inspiration, you inner feelings, at the time do most of the work.
I use to record every practice session I ever did. I ended up with a box of over 2,700 cassettes.
Now, I have it set to record, and all I have to do it hit pause.
I recommed you have a recorder of somesort close by when you practice your instrument.
I also recommend a mini cassette recorder to carry with you when you get an idea for a title, words, theme of a song, hum a riff, hum a melody, what ever. Don't count on your memory to remember what you just thought of. You'll lose is quicker than you thought of it.
Keep your ideas in an organized file system where you can go to them when your muse has a case of the jaws at you and refuses you her help. Keep everything for a while, that you think of while working on a song. Just because it don't fit in 'My First Song' doesn't mean it won't fit in 'My Seventh Song'.
My problem is working on other peoples stuff. Nothing I do, no words, ryhmes, melody,,,, etc, nothing, is good enough.
One my own, I'm carefree, though.
Relax, take your time on a song. Some songs take only minutes to write, others months or longer.
It's finished when you decide it is.
As Joro stated, there are NO RULES.
Follow that rule and you'll do just fine.
By the way, if you get a chance to listen to some of Joro's material, lend an ear. He definitly has a way with words.
Good luck
Oh, yeah, I reread Joro's post, about how he builds a song.
I start with a chordal arragement. If anything happens for me at that point, it will be the melody and the lyrics. In other words, I work on the chords, lyrics, melody and meter all at one time.
A Rough Draft.
I go back and edit what ever I feel is weakest in the song. Then I add tempo after I'm happy with what I have so far.
I change the tempo around for a while, listening, changing, etc till I feel comfortable with it.
Sometimes at this point I change the key or a chord or two.
Then I add the drums. My weakest area in music.
Then bass, back vocals, leads, key, harp, spoons, clapping, cursing, whatever, not in any order.
Hope it gives you an idea that anything goes. Do what's comfortable for you.
Rock On,
Boogie Down,
and Jelly Out.
G
glynb
Balladeer
Ho hum....
We had a whole thread on the 'Thereare/are not rules' debate. Just look down the list - something like 'Are there rules to good melody writng...'
Anyway, there is a structure which you need to use and then customise it. You can't just put anything down words/music and expect people to think its superb - ain't gonna happen. But if you write only for your own ears, then do whatever you like as noone else will hear it.
We had a whole thread on the 'Thereare/are not rules' debate. Just look down the list - something like 'Are there rules to good melody writng...'
Anyway, there is a structure which you need to use and then customise it. You can't just put anything down words/music and expect people to think its superb - ain't gonna happen. But if you write only for your own ears, then do whatever you like as noone else will hear it.
badgas
New member
glynb said:
Ho hum? That's a winner. As soon as I saw that I knew the wise ass comment.
Why don't you be a good boy, glynb, and go fetch that thread and post it for the guy since your so bright. instead of complaining about something that's been asked before.
Now,
~ pats your head ~
Run along skippy, find the thread like a good monitor.
How many questions have you asked of your 64 posts, that have been asked already?
Instead of making an ass of yourself, offer some reply to the guy that hasn't already been made.
It works both ways. If it's good enough for the question, it's good enough for the reply.
If you snoop around the damn archives, that you seem to be so knowledgable on, you'll find more replies like this, from your's truely.
No matter how many times you plan on 'ho'ing and huming, someone is going to ask the question again, and again, and again. That's life on a board.
Have you found that thread yet?
Chris Shaeffer
Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darn good advice here.
For me, a song typically starts with a feeling. Some feeling that wants to get expressed, to get out. Some story that wants to be told. Words and phrases bounce around until a few of them hit the nerve of that feeling and I begin to build the song around them.
Sometimes, I'll be noodling away on the guitar and some chord change or riff will call up that feeling. Then I'll play the part over and over, humming or singing sylables, until words start to rise out of it.
When the feeling stops, I stop. For me, trying to push the song beyond where it wants to go doesn't work. I'll songsmith stuff I've already written whlie inspired, refine meter and word choice, but I rarely succeded at writing something new without that inspiration. Over time, I just accepted it and stopped working when it was no longer flowing.
There are at least twice as many ways to write a song as there are songwriters, though. That's all just my experience.
Take care,
Chris
For me, a song typically starts with a feeling. Some feeling that wants to get expressed, to get out. Some story that wants to be told. Words and phrases bounce around until a few of them hit the nerve of that feeling and I begin to build the song around them.
Sometimes, I'll be noodling away on the guitar and some chord change or riff will call up that feeling. Then I'll play the part over and over, humming or singing sylables, until words start to rise out of it.
When the feeling stops, I stop. For me, trying to push the song beyond where it wants to go doesn't work. I'll songsmith stuff I've already written whlie inspired, refine meter and word choice, but I rarely succeded at writing something new without that inspiration. Over time, I just accepted it and stopped working when it was no longer flowing.
There are at least twice as many ways to write a song as there are songwriters, though. That's all just my experience.
Take care,
Chris
A
Artist Unknown
New member
Hi. This is what I did and it worked out very well for me. A few months ago I decided that at least once a day I would try to write some lyrics or a poem or something for at least 15 minutes. The idea was just to get a few ideas down everyday. I went about 2 months doing this and I would say that out of those 60+ files (I used notebook on the PC) there were about six that I was very excited about. Sometimes I would sit and nothing would come and sometimes it would just flow out. The hardest part for me is coming up with a overall purpose or theme for the song.
Anyways, just last week I was playing around with my guitar and I stumbled on to a nice little riff. I kept playing it and then it dawned on me that one of my poems fit the riff perfectly. I had to change it around a little bit, but it worked out nicely. Then the song just came together. What's really odd is that after that one song the other five came together one right after another....all within the course of a week or so. They still need work of course, but the basics are done. Sometimes the melody would come to me as I was reading over my lyrics and sometimes I would be in the shower. Just my 2 cents.
By the way, if there are rules for song writing I really don't pay them any attention. Just my opinion
Anyways, just last week I was playing around with my guitar and I stumbled on to a nice little riff. I kept playing it and then it dawned on me that one of my poems fit the riff perfectly. I had to change it around a little bit, but it worked out nicely. Then the song just came together. What's really odd is that after that one song the other five came together one right after another....all within the course of a week or so. They still need work of course, but the basics are done. Sometimes the melody would come to me as I was reading over my lyrics and sometimes I would be in the shower. Just my 2 cents.
By the way, if there are rules for song writing I really don't pay them any attention. Just my opinion
G
glynb
Balladeer
Badgas,
If you took out my 'Ho hum..' comment the rest of my post was trying to be infomative by pointing to the other thread of last week, and offering my opinion, which is what everyone does including you.
OK, I accept the Ho hum wasn't necessary - withdrawn. And I'm sure I've also asked repetitive questions - and some one has replied with a Ho humm !!!!
If you took out my 'Ho hum..' comment the rest of my post was trying to be infomative by pointing to the other thread of last week, and offering my opinion, which is what everyone does including you.
OK, I accept the Ho hum wasn't necessary - withdrawn. And I'm sure I've also asked repetitive questions - and some one has replied with a Ho humm !!!!
badgas
New member
glynb.
I just reread my post after reading your last post.
I guess I did come on a bit on the heavy side.
I apologize for being seemingly harsh. It wasn't the point of my post.
I'm blunt, to the point, use bad grammar and spelling and am a person of very few words. I have the unique ability to condence my few thoughts into packets that make MP3's look monolithic. My humor is questionable. I mix it in and is often mistaken for snide remarks.
I wrote what I did because of ( ONE) my own experience when I first came here, (TWO) it was MYSONG's first post.
When I first came here I asked all the usual questions. I had plenty of replies, but no one answered my questions. All I got was "Why don't you use the search engine?" and other comments.
After a few of these kinds of replies, I quit asking cuz I was tired of extracting my head from someone's jaws.
( I could get into the problems of finding things with the search engine, but this is not the thread for that )
I almost left with the intention of not coming back.
I've seen a lot of people come, ask a few questions and make some really great replies only to be shot down by some ol' timer. These people rarely come back.
I've done it, I admit it. But it's not a good practice, especially on new people.
When I was shot down a few times, I left the songwriters forum and it was months before I came back to it. To me it was a forum of a bunch of grumpy bastards.
That's what motivated me to comment like I did to your ho hum posting.
I didn't mean to sound bossy or trying to put an upstart down in his/her place.
I hope that clears up what I meant.
I'm sorry, and I apologize again that I came on strong.
~ I hand you the axe, drop to my knees and place my head on the chopping block ~
I just reread my post after reading your last post.
I guess I did come on a bit on the heavy side.
I apologize for being seemingly harsh. It wasn't the point of my post.
I'm blunt, to the point, use bad grammar and spelling and am a person of very few words. I have the unique ability to condence my few thoughts into packets that make MP3's look monolithic. My humor is questionable. I mix it in and is often mistaken for snide remarks.
I wrote what I did because of ( ONE) my own experience when I first came here, (TWO) it was MYSONG's first post.
When I first came here I asked all the usual questions. I had plenty of replies, but no one answered my questions. All I got was "Why don't you use the search engine?" and other comments.
After a few of these kinds of replies, I quit asking cuz I was tired of extracting my head from someone's jaws.
( I could get into the problems of finding things with the search engine, but this is not the thread for that )
I almost left with the intention of not coming back.
I've seen a lot of people come, ask a few questions and make some really great replies only to be shot down by some ol' timer. These people rarely come back.
I've done it, I admit it. But it's not a good practice, especially on new people.
When I was shot down a few times, I left the songwriters forum and it was months before I came back to it. To me it was a forum of a bunch of grumpy bastards.
That's what motivated me to comment like I did to your ho hum posting.
I didn't mean to sound bossy or trying to put an upstart down in his/her place.
I hope that clears up what I meant.
I'm sorry, and I apologize again that I came on strong.
~ I hand you the axe, drop to my knees and place my head on the chopping block ~
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
Nice post, badgas, but I must admit I have had nothing but friendly responses here. How can a forum be grumpy with joro and bdbd around?
Before inflicting myself on music I was into aviation, and the homerecording board is one big love in by comparison with the pilots' equivalent.
(I haven't answered the original question because I haven't got a clue
)
Before inflicting myself on music I was into aviation, and the homerecording board is one big love in by comparison with the pilots' equivalent.
(I haven't answered the original question because I haven't got a clue
)
badgas
New member
Hi Gary.
Joro and bdbd and some others are the foundation that we see today in this forum. A year or so ago, when I first came here, there were others who most people looked to for advice and guidence. Those guys are still around but seemed to have mellowed out.
I got to fly a cessna one time. I was superintendent for a heavy construction company at one time and my boss wanted to take me to lunch, three hundred miles away. We flew in his plane. He told me what the pedals and gadges all did then let me flit around the sky for a bit.
It was fun, but I much prefer plodding on the ground. Nature is my forte', being close to it means more than looking down on it.
Do you fly in your job or as a hobby?
Joro and bdbd and some others are the foundation that we see today in this forum. A year or so ago, when I first came here, there were others who most people looked to for advice and guidence. Those guys are still around but seemed to have mellowed out.
I got to fly a cessna one time. I was superintendent for a heavy construction company at one time and my boss wanted to take me to lunch, three hundred miles away. We flew in his plane. He told me what the pedals and gadges all did then let me flit around the sky for a bit.
It was fun, but I much prefer plodding on the ground. Nature is my forte', being close to it means more than looking down on it.
Do you fly in your job or as a hobby?
G
glynb
Balladeer
Badgas,
No problem, like I said the Ho Hum added nothing and didn't give an information. I have myself told people off for posting 'sassy/clever' responses to queries by new people which don't answer the poster's query - though these were far worse examples than my little comment!
The whole point of these boards is to learn and to share as you say.
No I haven't posted any music on this board. I'm working on my own stuff and getting to grips with a multitracker with a goal to produce my own CD album.
I don't mean to come across as an arrogant know it all, I certainly don't, if I thought I required assistance from people here on a particular lyric then i would post something immediately and ask for help. So far, i find by constantly revising my words and then revising some more I have come up with a lyric that I am 'content' with. Eventualy the plan is to have a web site with my stuff posted for people to listen to if they're interested. I want to go for a 'big bang' approach rather than letting songs 'out' on a one at a time basis.
I also want to pitch the demo songs to Independent lables first.
BTW I have asked for help many many times on these forums, just not help with lyrics so far.
Hmmm...come across as an arrogant know it all don't I !
No problem, like I said the Ho Hum added nothing and didn't give an information. I have myself told people off for posting 'sassy/clever' responses to queries by new people which don't answer the poster's query - though these were far worse examples than my little comment!
The whole point of these boards is to learn and to share as you say.
No I haven't posted any music on this board. I'm working on my own stuff and getting to grips with a multitracker with a goal to produce my own CD album.
I don't mean to come across as an arrogant know it all, I certainly don't, if I thought I required assistance from people here on a particular lyric then i would post something immediately and ask for help. So far, i find by constantly revising my words and then revising some more I have come up with a lyric that I am 'content' with. Eventualy the plan is to have a web site with my stuff posted for people to listen to if they're interested. I want to go for a 'big bang' approach rather than letting songs 'out' on a one at a time basis.
I also want to pitch the demo songs to Independent lables first.
BTW I have asked for help many many times on these forums, just not help with lyrics so far.
Hmmm...come across as an arrogant know it all don't I !
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
badgas - don't want to drag the thread OT, but briefly, flew as a hobby but a serious one as for 7 years I was in a formation aerobatic team. Don't fly now as once you've done that everything else is very tame, and not appealing now that I would have to pay for it.