J
jeff0633
Member
Hi
I read the huge thread about formulas in song writing, and it seems that this subject was not discussed deeply enough. To me, it is the melody that makes the hook (that thing that you sing in your head after you hear a song). I am a guitar player for 25 years, and I play live here in the Knoxville area. I have a bedroom studio, and I am presently in a song writing drought. I have tried and tried to here the different ways that song writers come up with great songs, but that formula, if there is one, still alludes me.
First, there is almost certainly a formula, but this can be unknown to the artists. For instance, Lennon's songs sounded nothing like McCartney's to me. Paul did many ballads, and used many minor chords in his songs, and his melidies seemed to fit a certain way over those chords, and the same with Lennon. If you say that there is no formula, then wouldn't half of John's songs sound exactly like Pauls? Now if you say, no, because John was John, and he was expressing himself in a certain way, then isn't that the formula? Let's look at some of Pauls songs. Yesterday is a beautiful melody over top of a variety of minor chords. There was a unique way he had of fitting his melodies over his chords. Lennons seemed not to be such complicated melodies, but he could still get great hooks. Now, lets look at "the long and winding road"? can you not see the certain "style" or formula here" Can't you see that these two are clearly written by the same person, just as clearly as Strawberry fileds, and revolution are also written by the same person. Yes, it's personality, but the personality makes them write in certain ways. And as soon as you say "Certain ways", then you are also saying formulas.
I have heard many song writers say that they use certain notes in a scale in a certain way, and that's what I want to know. I have seen Lionel Richy (spelling) writing on his pianno. I have also seen McCartney doing this. They explore certain notes in the scale, and they would write it down when they came upon a hook or something they liked. I have heard others say to avoid certain notes in your melodies, like 4ths or something. Let's look at Fleetwood Mac. That girl (the blonde) keyboard player writes a certain way, and I have heard her say that she writes on her pianno. Her melodies sound a lot like McM\Cartneys in some ways, though not as complicated. Let's take two of her songs. "You make lovin fun", and that other one that I like "When the lovin starts and the lights go down" Don't know the title to that one. Can you not see how similar these songs are? It seems as if she has a certain set of notes in the major scale that she uses, or a certain way of fitting her melodies over her chord progressins. Stevie Nicks, on the other hand, sounds totally different. These song writers may not even know they use any certain formula, it just may be natural to them. Remember lennon's song Sexy Sadie? Why were Lennons songs so consistent, and the same for these other writers? The one thing I can find that is consitent with all these folks is that their melodies seem to fit against their chord progressions in a consistent way. Lennon may have simply used certain notes in each guitar chord that he hit. McCartney may have written his melodies firt, and then fit backing chords to the melodies. Again, I saw Lionel making a melody first, and there was no backing chords to it yet.
I have been searching and searching, and trying and trying. I am in a horrible song writting funk, and can't seem to get out of it.
Also, another problem I have is that I love so many different styles of music, I can't seem to settle on one. I can Watch a Zepplin concert, and be moved to write in that style, then I get on a Neil Young kick, and then I want to write that. One thing I do know, is that there are common threda to these peoples songs. I have heard from too many writers that there are certain notes you stay away from in a melody. I want to know these things.
Please, let's not start another flame war. Since music can be writen in notation, then that means the difference between Lennon and McCartney's songs can be shown on paper. There IS a musically distinct way that Lennons songs are created, and is the case with these other writers. Please help me to understand them.
Jeff
I read the huge thread about formulas in song writing, and it seems that this subject was not discussed deeply enough. To me, it is the melody that makes the hook (that thing that you sing in your head after you hear a song). I am a guitar player for 25 years, and I play live here in the Knoxville area. I have a bedroom studio, and I am presently in a song writing drought. I have tried and tried to here the different ways that song writers come up with great songs, but that formula, if there is one, still alludes me.
First, there is almost certainly a formula, but this can be unknown to the artists. For instance, Lennon's songs sounded nothing like McCartney's to me. Paul did many ballads, and used many minor chords in his songs, and his melidies seemed to fit a certain way over those chords, and the same with Lennon. If you say that there is no formula, then wouldn't half of John's songs sound exactly like Pauls? Now if you say, no, because John was John, and he was expressing himself in a certain way, then isn't that the formula? Let's look at some of Pauls songs. Yesterday is a beautiful melody over top of a variety of minor chords. There was a unique way he had of fitting his melodies over his chords. Lennons seemed not to be such complicated melodies, but he could still get great hooks. Now, lets look at "the long and winding road"? can you not see the certain "style" or formula here" Can't you see that these two are clearly written by the same person, just as clearly as Strawberry fileds, and revolution are also written by the same person. Yes, it's personality, but the personality makes them write in certain ways. And as soon as you say "Certain ways", then you are also saying formulas.
I have heard many song writers say that they use certain notes in a scale in a certain way, and that's what I want to know. I have seen Lionel Richy (spelling) writing on his pianno. I have also seen McCartney doing this. They explore certain notes in the scale, and they would write it down when they came upon a hook or something they liked. I have heard others say to avoid certain notes in your melodies, like 4ths or something. Let's look at Fleetwood Mac. That girl (the blonde) keyboard player writes a certain way, and I have heard her say that she writes on her pianno. Her melodies sound a lot like McM\Cartneys in some ways, though not as complicated. Let's take two of her songs. "You make lovin fun", and that other one that I like "When the lovin starts and the lights go down" Don't know the title to that one. Can you not see how similar these songs are? It seems as if she has a certain set of notes in the major scale that she uses, or a certain way of fitting her melodies over her chord progressins. Stevie Nicks, on the other hand, sounds totally different. These song writers may not even know they use any certain formula, it just may be natural to them. Remember lennon's song Sexy Sadie? Why were Lennons songs so consistent, and the same for these other writers? The one thing I can find that is consitent with all these folks is that their melodies seem to fit against their chord progressions in a consistent way. Lennon may have simply used certain notes in each guitar chord that he hit. McCartney may have written his melodies firt, and then fit backing chords to the melodies. Again, I saw Lionel making a melody first, and there was no backing chords to it yet.
I have been searching and searching, and trying and trying. I am in a horrible song writting funk, and can't seem to get out of it.
Also, another problem I have is that I love so many different styles of music, I can't seem to settle on one. I can Watch a Zepplin concert, and be moved to write in that style, then I get on a Neil Young kick, and then I want to write that. One thing I do know, is that there are common threda to these peoples songs. I have heard from too many writers that there are certain notes you stay away from in a melody. I want to know these things.
Please, let's not start another flame war. Since music can be writen in notation, then that means the difference between Lennon and McCartney's songs can be shown on paper. There IS a musically distinct way that Lennons songs are created, and is the case with these other writers. Please help me to understand them.
Jeff