Sonar Producer (any mastering capabilities?)

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NLAlston

NLAlston

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Would someone who considered upgrading to Sonar "Producer" still have a need for a dedicated 'mastering program'?. I know someone (with rather shallow pockets, at present) who is considering upgrading from Sonar 2 to Sonar 3 OR 'Producer'. He (at least) needs version 3, but would definitely spring for the 'Producer' version providing it affords some degree of mastering capabilities.

Please inform.
 
Sonar 3 is not really a mastering environment. Either the studio or producer edition.

So said, there is nothing stopping you using Sonar as the base tool which you use for mastering. Just re-import the mixed stereo file into a new track and apply whatever "mastering" effects you need/want to use.

Producer Edition is good if you don't have any plugins or reverbs or if you need a sampler. If you already have that sort of stuff, then just get studio.

Ciao,

Q.
 
ya i would have to agree.
I think sonar is great for tracking and mixing. it is also great for adding some midi parts and little extras.
That said, i still like to import my final mix into cool edit pro to put the final touches on my stuff.
That would be great if the next sonar came with an integreated mastering environment with some powerful tools. I guess those are two slightly different markets though.
 
Howdy, minofifa.

Would you mind telling what kind of "final touches" you use Cool Edit Pro for that SONAR doesn't let you do? I'm rather clueless on the "mastering" front, so I've pretty much just been pulling in the stereo mixdown and doing a little compression/level adjustment and maybe some minor EQ tweaks. Just curious to know what kind of extra stuff CEP lets you do...?

Thanks, :)
-Jeff
 
Well, for me, perhaps it is just the environment i like most about cool edit. Once you have your finished mixdown in front of you in cool edit, the editing is very intuitive. You can cut out sections (for example the beginning or end crap you don't want), add silence to the parts that shouldn't have any sound, use noise reduction (probably the best tool), use a limitor / compressor to smooth things out, etc. I like the sonitus eq better in sonar though.
One example where i just recently used cool edit. We did a cover song which had a serious tempo change half way though. Insted of using the tempo change-a-ma-bob in sonar, i just did two different sonar projects, exported both to cool edit and spliced them together.
Cool edit also has a spectrum analyzer so you can have a look at your music in a different way.
Cool edit has an mp3 converter which does not run out, so if your sonar mp3 converter expires you have another option.

I'm sure many of the things i have mentioned can be done in sonar, this is just the workflow that suites me best. I found a program that lets me run cool edit inside of sonar, through the tools menu so the programs work side by side which is nice.

One final thing, i don't just use cool edit for mastering. I also use it to clean up my indiviaual tracks before i start the mixing (i.e. amplify, edit out the crap, add silence to parts etc.)
 
oh yeah, if you are interested in trying it, i think there is a free version somewhere on the net (not an illegal one either). There may be a demo of the new version, i think it is now called adobe audition or something.

An alternative may be sound forge or even steinberg wavelab (which i would also highly recommend). Try some demos out.
Wave labs is harder to use (in my experience) but it has some great features.
 
i master singles in sonar

if i'm only "mastering" a single song not a compilation, I do everything in sonar... except dithering from 24/48 to 16/44.1.

i apply the necessary EQ, multiband compression and limiting to the main in sonar2.

i do the dithering in samplitude master.

i've got pyro, but i haven't played around with it enough to know if it dithers.
 
crosstudio said:
i've got pyro, but i haven't played around with it enough to know if it dithers.
Click to expand...

I only have Pyro 2003 and it does not dither.

Ciao,

Q.
 
minofifa said:
oh yeah, if you are interested in trying it, i think there is a free version somewhere on the net (not an illegal one either.)
Click to expand...
Ding! You just said the magic word - free! Always seems to fit nicely within my budget. :D I'll take a look for it, so I can check it out. I use the mp3 converter that's part of my MusicMatch player. Otherwise, I think that most of stuff you mentioned I do in Sonar, except for the noise reduction though. That would be a sweet utility to have at my disposal, especially since my current project is transferring a bunch of my old band's tape demos into Sonar, doing a little "digital remastering" LOL :rolleyes:, and burning to CD. The tapes are quite noisy, so this would really help. I found a free spectrum analyzer plugin for Sonar (not in front of my DAW so forget its name, but I'll check later if anyone's interested), but I still have yet to find a free noise reduction plugin (if anyone knows of one, would love to hear about it).

Thanks for the info! :)
-Jeff
 
Thanks to everyone for replying. The information gained from these replies will travel far toward helping my brother (and, now, myself even) reach that desired point.
 
guttadaj said:
I found a free spectrum analyzer plugin for Sonar (not in front of my DAW so forget its name, but I'll check later if anyone's interested), but I still have yet to find a free noise reduction plugin (if anyone knows of one, would love to hear about it).

-Jeff
Click to expand...


Hey Jeff,

Let me know where I can get that free spectrum analyzer. Also, if you have come across that free noise reduction plugin - let me know. I will forward any info on what I may be able to locate, also.
 
crosstudio said:
if i'm only "mastering" a single song not a compilation, I do everything in sonar... except dithering from 24/48 to 16/44.1.

i apply the necessary EQ, multiband compression and limiting to the main in sonar2.

i do the dithering in samplitude master.

i've got pyro, but i haven't played around with it enough to know if it dithers.
Click to expand...

Would you please explain to me what "Dithering" is? I have been hearing this term tossed around, rather often, and gather (from the start of your message) that dithering is some form of a conversion process. But please let me know exactly.
 
Dithering, in audio, is the process of adding "noise" to a sound file in order to offset artifacts that would otherwise occur when reducing the bit depth of a file through simple truncation of the file. Generally these issues are most pronounced at very, low level signals, such as a fade-out or a reverb tail, where there are insufficient bits available to represent the declining signal properly. Without dither there would be a noticeable "step" drop from sound to silence - rather than a smooth tailoff. Dither keeps the lowest bit open, rather than triggering to silence.

The added noise is designed to be in a frequency range that is barely audible, theorectically not interfering and still allowing you to hear the music "tail".

Dithering should be the final step used in the mastering process when, for example, you are starting with a 24 bit file and reducing it to 16 bits for burning to a CD.
 
dachay2tnr said:
The added noise is designed to be in a frequency range that is barely audible, theorectically not interfering and still allowing you to hear the music "tail". Dithering should be the final step used in the mastering process when, for example, you are starting with a 24 bit file and reducing it to 16 bits for burning to a CD.
Click to expand...

Hi,

And thanks for responding. Now I know what the problem was with a song of mine, which was faded out. The transition from beginning process (of the fade out) to silence was not a smooth one, for there was indeed a noticable 'drop out' heard at the end. What I don't yet understand (and forgive me) is what was referenced in the last sentence of the above portion of your quote. I just don't know what the concern would be about when stepping down from a 24 bit file to 16 bits for burning. What does Dithering do in light of this step? And is it something that should be applied after or during the conversion from 24 to 16 bits? This is all probably common knowledge to most of you, but I really haven't the faintest clue. I do yearn to learn, though.

Thanks in advance.
 
NLAlston said:
Let me know where I can get that free spectrum analyzer. Also, if you have come across that free noise reduction plugin - let me know. I will forward any info on what I may be able to locate, also.
Click to expand...
Hiya, Nate.

The free spectrum analyzer can be found at Voxengo. It's the first one in the list, and it's a VST plugin so you'll need a VST Wrapper - I have SONAR3 which came with one, but I believe there's a free one out there you can use with SONAR2.

As for my free noise reduction plugin quest, I still haven't found one. :( I've thought I've found one on a couple of occasions, but they've just turned out to be gate plugins. What I did though was download the free version of Cool Edit 96, which has a pretty decent noise reduction feature. Unfortunately, it only works with 16-bit files, so you would have to dither your stuff down if working higher than that.
 
Also, regarding your last question about dithering - why should it be last step...

If you're working with a file at 24-bits, you may choose to add an effect or 2 here and there - or, if you're effect-crazy like me, as many as your computer can handle. :) I think I need to get into a 12-step program to help with my effect addiction. :D Anyway, these effects will be able to work better on the 24-bit file because there are more bits to do their calculations, so the results will be more precise. That's why the dithering should be done last - once you're done messing with it and you're ready to burn to CD (which requires 16-bit, 44.1 kHz), that's when you dither, so that all your work up to that point will be of higher fidelity.
 
Guttadaj,

Thanks again, Pal, for your helpfulness. Your response has shed much light on this 'Dithering' issue, and I know that your information will indeed serve me well. I also wish to thank you for the free download link to Voxengo's Spectrum Analyzer. I also took advantage of the free 'Tube Amp' plugin. I dont rightly know what all will be comprised in my new program - Sonar Producer - when it arrives on Monday, and it may very well be that I won't need the latter mentioned plugin. But we'll soon see :).
 
Cool Edit/Audition 1.5

minofifa,
Thanks for the info on cool edit! I am trying it now (Audition 1.5) very useful for me.!!!

Cheers,
Glenn
 
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