Sonar 4.......some questions

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Magnum

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So, how do I make this not just another "should I get Sonar 4" thread.....

let me tell you what I need to do! :D

I want to record vocals, bass, and guitar, as well as do midi work with SoftSynths via Midi Keyboard, and also use Reason for some extra sequencing/synth stuff. I don't do any video work, just audio/midi.

One thing I've read in my book, The Billboard Illustrated Home Recording Handbook, is that Cubase's effects are pretty weak (i.e.-the reverb). Now I'm not sure if that's still the case, but the book also stated the Cakewalk has focused all of their attention on building the ultimate audio software for a Windows Platform, and they've outsourced for the effects (which include effects from Lexicon). Now, I'm strongly leaning toward Sonar b/c I'm assuming it comes with very high quality effects, and great midi capapabilities, Re-wire capabilities for using Reason, etc. Some questions I have are:

1) is all the above true? (superb effects, ideal for windows since it's not made for mac, etc.)

2) is this program an ideal program for musicians, in terms that has a "less steep" learning curve than other programs?

3) a fully featured program that will allow a musician to grow into the program?

4) What are my best software options for creating REALISTIC & customized drum patterns for any style (rock, jazz, country, avant garde, anything). Is Reason good for this? Or is it leaning more toward house/techno music, and would I be better off with a different Drum Machine. I think Sonar comes with drum machine stuff, but not sure.

5) Do I need Sonar? Would Home Studio suffice?

6) Sonar will take me from the very beginning to the very end (mastering), right?

7) I can use Soft Synths and other plug ins as VST Direct X plugins?? (I think Sonar accepts VST plugins with a 'wrapper" device that uses VST like it does DirectX.

So, I know everyone swears by their personal favorite software as "the best" but I'm just trying to make a good decision here. Sonar seems very professional, reasonablly priced, and geared towards people who are beginners, intermediates, or professionals.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mag
 
Personally I think the Lexicon reverb is weak. Fortunately Sonar comes with the Sonitus Bundle of FX. These plugins are hands down the best plugins included with a program, and the Sonitus Reverb might just be the best sounding reverb ever (I've tried just about every reverb out there, and this is the only one I use anymore).
 
#1,#3 and #5 are interrelated...HS2004 you stand a chance of outgrowing but it's still a very capable program. SONAR 4.x Producer will keep you busy for a long time to come. I started with the HS line then finally worked up to SONAR. No regrets.

#2...it's no worse than some, better than others.

#4...tried a few...finally settled on a real drummer. You'll have to find this one on your own.

#6...mastering? Since you're asking...probobly not. Check with the big boys...ask Blue Bear what he thinks. The application will certainly enable you to deliver an excellent mix to someone who's a pro in this area. Skill, talent and experience will drive most of this.

#7...yup...it uses a wrapper to get the job done. It's very flixible in this area. I should point out that this another area where SONAR kicks ass on HS2004. It also has per track EQ. Check out the Cakewalk website for the feature set comparisons. SONAR has a lot of additional functionality...not just more glitz.

Hope this helps.
 
Sonar is pretty darn good tracking software for live recording and extremely versatile for writing music too.

I did a live session this last weekend and was able to turn around the session in about 15 minutes from a tracking only to monitoring prior tracks and tracking. I built the headphone feeds and rerouted an analogue console in this time. That's pretty efficient and the software has been extremely stable.

The built in plug ins are easy on the CPU and you can do a quick mock up of the mix for playback. I am pretty pleased with it, however, it's not an easy ramp on getting good at using the software. I takes about 3 months to get the hang of things.
 
1) Sonitus yes (but I use Studio, so I don't have them :( ), the Lexicon reverb I find better than its reputation. The other stuff is ok. I don't hesitate to use it...

2) I thought so. But the last year I've heard several people complaining that Sonar is harder than Cubase to get into. So I don't really know. I found it extremely easy moving from Pro Audio 9 to Sonar 3. But that's not really the same thing.

3) Yes. The feature comparisions are getting silly in a way. If you can't make music with one of the big one's. Or even Powertrack, n-track or Magix, it's not the softwares fault.

4) If you're interested in realistic drums, this might be of interest:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63019

If you jump in put me as a referee (beltrom) and you (and me) get a $5 discount at next purchase.

5) I think Home Studio is ok.

6) No, I find it easier to finish the tracks in another app (mastering stage, but I'm really not), but many use Sonar as a tool to compile their CD. They import all their tracks for final layout.

7) Yes, it's a bit tricky to keep the menus neat, but it's workable.
 
Yo yo yo

That's good to hear about the Sointus FX Bundle.

As far as mastering is considered, I figured it would be my best bet to send it off to a professional for mastering. It's also good a second ear as well.

As far as the drum machine thing goes, I've heard that the DR008 and FxPansion's BFD programs are good choices......that will be another fun quest!

so, you guys are all PC users if you use Cakewalk products. Just curious, what PC's do you use? Desktop or Laptop? Processor? RAM?
 
Good recommendation......it looks like people's PC's are all across the board. Even those with 512MB RAM seem to be able to get the job done. I'm thinking about upgrading my Dell Desktop (Pentium 4, 1.8Ghz) by adding another 512MB RAM to the existent 256MB. Maybe just go to 1Gig of RAM. I figure then I can make that machine work for me, especially since Sonar4 now incorporates the new FREEZE function. This will help with CPU performance even more.

Now, I just gotta nail down my Drum Machine Software! :)
 
My Opinion

1) YES!!!

2) Totally a 'no-brainer' even a technically challenged individual like myself, can figure out how to make this stuff work. (and when i get stuck...usually a post and reply here and there will solve the problem.)

3) I've grown from Cakewalk Pro Audio to Sonar 4 Producer

4) Drums are rough. Sound you get depends on your skills. I've heard people using great 'toys' have sucky beats and people with no 'toys' make some really amazing stuff. I personally use fruity loops as it is also a 'no brainer' type application and my stuff comes out pretty average. If i get really lazy i can slice and dice stuff from my Loop CDs.

5) Go for Sonar.

6) Sonar could take you from the very beginning to the end, but in my opinion...mastering should be left to professionals. But...with enough practice...you can get a full, finished sounding final product.

7) Those things work flawlessly...i'm once again not technical, but i haven't had any problems with mine.


You're welcome
 
mshea, thanks man! Yeah, I bet the drum sampling takes practice to get it sounding good. Although expensive, FXPansion's BFD seems like a good way to go.
 
Drumkit from Hell (DFH Superior) has better samples to my ears than BFD. Check them out on the web.
 
Sonar 4 Producers Edition

Hey, is it possible to connect a mixer to the computer, but assign each track on the mixer to a different track on Sonar?

Thanks
 
yes...if you are multitracking with a mixer, you'll need an interface that has the same amount of channels as your mixer, so you can take the line out from the mixer --->to the interface--->to the computer--->and then assign the channels on the interface in Sonar.
 
Im pretty new to recording so im not that sure what to do but have a rough idea...

I was thinking micing up the singer, two guitars, the bass and the drums(multiple mics) and putting each mic through a different channel, then where does it go from there? Just from the mixer to the computer?

Also will i need any special software for the mixer i use as i will be hiring it...

Thanks
 
Oh and what do you mean by interface? Like software ie Sonar?
 
By interface, blueroom is referring to the sound card. This is where the analog gets converted to digital so it can be stored by the computer.

Most stock computer soundcards have a stereo input. This will allow the computer to accept two mono tracks simultaneously. To do more than that will require a sound card/interface with multiple inputs.

For example, a Delta 1010 has 8 inputs. You can record 8 tracks simultaneously. You would run a cable from the Direct Out connection on the mixer to one of the sound card's inputs, and repeat for as many channels as you need (up to 8). If your mixer does not have direct outs, you can also use a Channel Insert for this - usually by inserting the cable halfway into the jack. In short, you would have 8 instruments/mics going to the mixer, and 8 cables going from the mixer to the computer's sound card. Each carrying a separate signal.

And, yes, you will need special software as well. You need multi-channel recording software that can accept the signals onto individual tracks. Sonar is one example of such software. There are others as well (but none better, since you are in the Sonar forum :) ).
 
Okay i kind of understand...

So would i be able to record say 16 tracks using an average soundcard with jut one line-in, although Sonar has up to 32 tracks :S
 
cj_equitality said:
So would i be able to record say 16 tracks using an average soundcard with jut one line-in, although Sonar has up to 32 tracks :S
Click to expand...
No.

The highest number of tracks you can record simultaneoulsy is equal to the number of input on your sound card. A sound card with just one (stereo) line in, will allow you record two (mono) tracks simultaneously.

The key here is "simultaneous." You can record as many tracks as you wish (up to the capacity of the software), by doing them one (or two) at a time.

However, if you wanted to record a band live, and have each instrument on its own track, you would need a sound card with as many inputs as there are feeds from the band.

A simple example, would be a 3-piece band with a lead vocalist. A typical setup might be 4 mics on drums (2 overhead, a kick, and a snare), a bass, a guitar and the vocal. That would equal 7 feeds, and hence a sound card with a minimum of 7 inputs.

If you added keys or backup vocals, or if you wanted more mics on the drums, you would need more inputs.

Hoiwever, as noted above, you do not always have to record everything simultaneously. Using the same 3-piece band, you could always lay the music tracks first, and then come back later and record the vocal tracks. Or even just record the drums first, then bass, then guitar, then vocals. If you approached it that way, you could get away with a sound card with just 4 inputs. Some people, however, feel that you lose the "live" feel by recording this way - so tastes and preferences play into your choices as well.

Hope that helps.
 
I like sonor 4 P E .. yes it is way more stable than 2.0 i used to have .. and the fx are really good i love the sontius fx and patheon reverbs are killer .. I like that it has an built in eq on every channel now ...in 2.0 i had to use a plug in .. i also like the audio meteranome .. makes tempo changes very easy ...
 
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