something i cant get a grasp on....answer if you can.

  • Thread starter Thread starter czar of bizarre
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czar of bizarre

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pretty soon im going to record to tape at a bigger studio but my questions have to do with the digital realm. i have been told at seminars by several RESPECTED engineers/producers/composers that i should track at -3db.

other people have told me when recording digital signals get as close to zero as possible.

others have said -12 to -4 is the way to go.

is this a matter of opinion or does it depend on the equipment being used? personally i track as hot as possible but i want to "ease my mind" and lay this issue to rest.

the other question i have is about the line/mic knob on mixing consoles. lets say i am recording parts from a keyboard workstation. the first part is a piano and its going in stereo. i adjust the volume on the workstation and i adjust the line/mic level to where it blinks. once i see it blink i back off to where it doesnt blink and i record the pianos that way.

if i wanted to record something else from that workstation lets say a lead for example would i re-adjust the line/mic according to the sound or would i keep the settings the same as i did for the pianos? personally i re adjust because sometimes the next sound will peak or it wont be hot enough. im asking because i need closure. i want to know if im going down the right path or if im way off.

when i track i leave the faders at 0db and adjust the signal according to the line/mic knobs. am i on track when it comes to tracking or am i off track? i will record the SAME thing over and over and over and over *different* ways because i dont know what the hell is etched in stone!!!!

yes i break the rules and i love to break the rules. yes it does sound good and it sounds like im in the right ball park (my mixes *usually* translate without eq and processing). the sound i get when i mix at home is *usually* the sound that i get when i go to wal mart or some other store and play back my tracks using the car audio and home audio section.


any tips or advice would help me out here. its like a performence or recording....when do you say "its over" time to move on to the next song? when it becomes boring? when it starts to get muddy? i dont have a problem with this (i did in the past). i dont know man maybe all of this could be stress because im about to finish this project and im spending big money and a big studio. stress and being nervous because a lot of doors are opening for me.......i constantly ask myself "AM I DOING THE RIGHT THING ?"

im my worst critic. i can take it from others but i am CONSTANTLY trying to find a way to improve my sound, improve my sound make it better etc etc etc. not make it LOUDER but make it NEW or make it DIFFERENT........



thanx for reading


a confused but wise CZAR


ps if this doesnt belong here i apologize but i would like my questions answered or a little insight/opinions.
 
The closer you track to 0dbFS, the more you take advantage of the your full-word resolution............ BUT - you have to balance that off with the fact that you NEVER want to exceed 0dbFS..........

-3db is a very reasonable precaution....

Bruce
 
It sounds like you are doing things correctly.

The maximum level you should record at is also a matter of the recording format. Higher end digital and analog formats have less noise and you can track at lower levels for safety reasons and not worry too much about the noise floor. That mainly applies to 24bit digital and analog with Dolby SR.

If you are recording on 16bit or cheap analog then you definately want to get everything as hot as possible. Maybe even use a little limiting or compression while tracking to stay away from the format noise floor.
 
thankyou. you guys keep me on my toes. im still green but im learning. thanx.



czar
 
wait, I'm a little confused....... this "line/mic" knob you're talking about....... is this like a gain knob on a preamp/mixer? cause if so, shouldn't you NOT be running keyboards through it? keyboards put out a line level signal, so you should either run those through a line input, OR if this "line/mic" is what I think it is, you should have the knob fully counterclockwise (so it's at the "line" setting). maybe I'm talking out of my ass here, but this can really hamper the sound after a while..... running through two preamps and/or running a line level signal through another preamp isn't the most desireable thing.
 
If you can bypass a mixer pre-amp section and send your line-level signal direct to the recorder, go for it!

What you gain (no pun intended) from using the mixer are the convenience of just leaving it plugged in to that source and some extra gain from the pre if the input signal is too wimpy. Other useful reasons to just stick with the mixer and adjust the gain as needed are EQ and other effects that you can turn off if not needed/wanted.

But for the cleanest signal: do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Go direct to your recorder.
 
VotaIdiota -

Most keyboards have a very weak output, and need a preamp of some sort to give them a little more balls. If yuo can do without, go for it. Unfortunatley, it is seldom the case.

Oren
 
if i leave it all the way at line its going to be a weak signal. wont even hit -4. hell it wont hit -12 either.

basically i go directly out from the synth into the recorder and adjust the line/mic accordingly.

czar
 
Recording level is always going to be a controversial subject.

Digital clipping is less forgiving than analog clipping, the general (should be, universal) consensus is that you should never have a clipped digital signal.

If you can GUARENTEE (sorry for shouting) that you aren't going to clip when digital recording, then I'd say go for the -3dB mark; this leaves you headroom for EQing and so on later (although it's a better idea to cut than to boost when EQing). Your signal/noise ratio should be o.k (does anybody really want sterile sounding tracks?).

If it's not possible to accurately control the levels when recording, for example, live recording, then aim for the -9db to -6db mark.

The EBU (European Broadcast Union) standard for digital recording is to leave a headroom of -18dB. This is a little bit exreme as they mainly concentrate on vocals and atmo.

I'd rather have -9db FSD of signal and work on the noise reduction later than having to deal with reconsituting a couple of seconds of clipped signal.

I'm sure someone is going to disagree - the main point is that if you can roughly judge the signal levels you are going to record plus you know how your recording medium performs plus you can use your ears, then you will find your own maximum recording levels. It is a mattter of experience and confidence.

Hope these ideas have been of some help.

Regards,

John
 
Perhaps these low scores on balls are due to folks trying to drive a +4 input with a -10 output.....

Mine is like that -10 to -10. :eek:

But I've got enough clean gain from the pre that it doesn't matter

>It is a mattter of experience and confidence.

Yes, in both your ability to do an estimate of where the sound will go and the technique available to make that a possibility on the part of those playing.
 
VotaIdiota what keyboard do you have?


czar

ps thax 2 everyone who replied.
 
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