Solid State Or Tube Rectifier? Differences?

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stevieb

Just another guy, really.
Got a Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb. I broke the rectifier tube (long story) and shop I usually go to only had a solid-state replacement. Owner said if I didn't like it he would exchange it. He now has the proper tube rectifier.

Don't mean to be stupid, here, but what's the tonal differences?

Which one should I go with? The amp comes with me when I go somewhere to play, fairly often- does moving the amp have an effect on the rect. tube more than the others? Put another way, are the other tubes just as fragile as the rectifier tube, and thus going SS will not get me anymore road-worthyness?

Thanks!
 
the sonic differences are simple...

the tube rectifier reacts relitively slowly so it tends to sag and contributes to the creamy/bluesy kind of distortion...

the SS rectifier is pretty instantanious so the amp reacts quick and would tend towards more of an edgy sound... so if you're a shredder go this way...

otherwise most guys prefer the tube...
 
Did you miss my answer to your post 3 days ago? If you want other opinions , that's cool. But I would seriously consider NOT using a ss rect in your Deluxe. If you are looking for "roadworthyness" and reliability go with the tube. It will be kinder to the power supply in your amp. The ss rect will push the voltages up and make everything work a little harder.
 
goldtopchas said:
Did you miss my answer to your post 3 days ago? If you want other opinions , that's cool. But I would seriously consider NOT using a ss rect in your Deluxe. If you are looking for "roadworthyness" and reliability go with the tube. It will be kinder to the power supply in your amp. The ss rect will push the voltages up and make everything work a little harder.
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I can't even FIND my post from 3 days ago! It (and several others I made) seem to have dissapeared into the internet ether! Thanks for the tip.
 
I thought I had read something about ss. rect. and deluxe amps. Here was my answer to your thread from 3 days ago..... Found it . It was in one of Gerald Webers books. He is pretty much "THE" Fender amp guru. ..."Never use a SS. rect in a Deluxe Reverb as the higher voltage can reduce power tube life to minutes! " It seems the voltage in the Deluxe is already operating a bit high for 6v6 tubes and the SS rect can push it well byond what the tubes can handle. He does say that you can use 6l6gc or 5881 tubes with the ss rect but it would have to be rebiased for them. Incidentally, biasing is critical for the deluxe for this reason. Might be a good time to have it checked by a competant tech. 30 ma is recomended.

I would definitely ask for an exchange and order a replacement tube rect.
 
i also would use 5881's in that amp instead of the 6v6's...
 
stevieb said:
oh? Why? Fuck this forum provider that makes me type in at least 10 words...
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Ooh, the horror of having to type a bit! Chill out. He's not an inanimate "forum provider"--he's a person. And you just said "f&*k you" to him for virtually nothing. Very classy... :mad:
 
WhiteStrat said:
Ooh, the horror of having to type a bit! Chill out. He's not an inanimate "forum provider"--he's a person. And you just said "f&*k you" to him for virtually nothing. Very classy... :mad:
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I was under the impression such things were set by the provider where the list is hosted. That's been my experience in other forums similar to this one. Didn't mean to rag on anyone, honest. Sorry.

Just changed it to be a little nicer.

And NOW look what you made me do! I just typed 56 words. No, 58. No, 60...:)

I can't help it when your "he's a person" comment remindes me of that flamer who defended Brittany Spears...:D

Still wanna know why I should go with 5881's instead of 6V6's...
 
dementedchord said:
i also would use 5881's in that amp instead of the 6v6's...
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Why? The 5881 shows up as a match for 6L6, not 6V6. I wouldn't replace the 6V6's with 6L6's even if I could. I've got a couple of dual 6L6 amps; I got the deluxe for the 6V6's.
 
6v6-6l6-5881 are all pin compatable... the 5881 is the mil spec 6l6... they will take more abuse especially if you go with that SS rectifier... the 6v6 will distort earlier but most of the guy's i've worked for seem to think it's not as smooth sounding distortion... but then again i'm a tech and a keyboard player... we like things super clean... so as always YMMV...
 
dementedchord said:
i also would use 5881's in that amp instead of the 6v6's...
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Bad idea. Really bad idea.


dementedchord said:
6v6-6l6-5881 are all pin compatable... the 5881 is the mil spec 6l6... they will take more abuse especially if you go with that SS rectifier... the 6v6 will distort earlier but most of the guy's i've worked for seem to think it's not as smooth sounding distortion... but then again i'm a tech and a keyboard player... we like things super clean... so as always YMMV...
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Not true. Sure the pin-outs are the same, but they are not interchangeable tubes. They have VERY different current requirements (plate currents of 160ma for a 5881, 180mA for a 6L6, 70mA for a 6V6; heater currents of .90 A for a 5881 or 6L6, and .45 A for a 6V6). You can not just swap them out in the same amp - depending on how close your amps tolerances are, you can easily fry your power transformer. Also, a 6L6 can take a much higher plate voltage, so if you put a 6V6 in a 6L6 amp you can fry the tube (400v for a 5881, 360v for a 6L6, and 315 for a 6V6). And of course, a 6L6 or 5881 run at 6V6 levels - even if the power transformer can handle it - will sound pretty lame. And the power transformer can't handle it, because power transformers are expensive, so most factories do NOT overbuild them. In most 6V6 amps, in order to use 6L6's, you would at the very least need to add an additional transformer for the extra heater current. Which sucks. For what it's worth, it looks as though you would probably be OK on heater current for that amp, but the spec on the B+ windings is already dangerously close, so as I said; really bad idea.

Also, those solid state rectifiers for tube amps can damage some amps - they are too efficient for a lot of older designs. Not all of them, but some of them. I'd advise against using them unless you have someone who really knows how to build and repair amps make any necessary adjustments.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
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Light said:
Also, those solid state rectifiers for tube amps can damage some amps - they are too efficient for a lot of older designs. Not all of them, but some of them. I'd advise against using them unless you have someone who really knows how to build and repair amps make any necessary adjustments.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
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i am aware of the current draw and max voltage differences... and have no problem with specing a heavier part... personally have never toasted the heater portion of a tranny and i've done this considerable times... please note that i am not suggesting a 6v6 be swapped for a 6l6/5881...

as to the sound... some prefer it... i think because it tends to saturate the output tranny earlier

curiously enough it's his question about using a SS rectifier that prompted me to suggest the tune swap as they will better deal with the increase...

and as to having them adjusted for... lets stick to the merely obvious and leave the extremely obvious alone... i recommend rebiasing with every tube change whether theres a substitution involved or not...
 
dementedchord said:
i am aware of the current draw and max voltage differences... and have no problem with specing a heavier part... personally have never toasted the heater portion of a tranny and i've done this considerable times... please note that i am not suggesting a 6v6 be swapped for a 6l6/5881...
.
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Now I'm confused. Didn't you say

i also would use 5881's in that amp instead of the 6v6's...
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You do know that this is a Deluxe Reverb we are talking about, right? With 6V6's? Maybe I'm just not getting what you are saying somehow.
 
The Fender Amp Field Guide, the label inside the amp, and the etch on the tubes, themselves ALL say

6V6. NOT 6L6.

You know, I really like this site, and these forums, but obviously, at least ONE person here does not seem to know what the hell he is talking about. The biggest problem there, is, I DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS. Come on, all you self-proclaimed amp experts- get your acts together so we can move ahead, here.

For now, I am going to go back to the tube rectifier, and stay with my 6V6 tubes. They tested out just fine, anyway, and I am not in the habit of throwing out perfectly good tubes.
 
stevieb said:
The Fender Amp Field Guide, the label inside the amp, and the etch on the tubes, themselves ALL say

6V6. NOT 6L6.

You know, I really like this site, and these forums, but obviously, at least ONE person here does not seem to know what the hell he is talking about. The biggest problem there, is, I DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS. Come on, all you self-proclaimed amp experts- get your acts together so we can move ahead, here.
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It's pretty simple. With a 6V6, you aren't running your amp outside its specs. With a 6L6 or 5881, you are. And there is a very real chance, with the 6L6 or 5881 that you will blow your power transformer - which is usually the most expensive part in an amp. Make up your own mind, but to comfortably use a 6L6 in a Deluxe (and by the by, the sound of the Deluxe, which is one of the most popular amps in the Fender line, is a 6V6), you would need to get a bigger power transformer, very likely a new output transformer, and swap out a few resistors inside the amp. All of that is at the very least. And you would have an amp which no longer sounded like a Deluxe.

Now, I am a guitar expert, not an amp expert, but anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of electronics can tell you this is not a great idea. At the very least, if you are going to do it take your amp to a really good tech and have them tell you if it is safe to do. Personally, I'd leave it alone, or maybe have it converted to Blackface specs (which is not too hard with most Silverface amps), because there is a very good reason most vintage folks talk a lot of smack about silverface amps.


stevieb said:
For now, I am going to go back to the tube rectifier, and stay with my 6V6 tubes. They tested out just fine, anyway, and I am not in the habit of throwing out perfectly good tubes.
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Seems like the right choice to me. At the very least, you can not damage your amp that way.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
look... i was not trying to start a pissing match... no i dont know everything about tube amps... but i know quite a bit... and will provide lists of co i've done factory service for and name drop some clientel if you want this to get sillier than it already is... for the record i am not suggesting a 6v6 can be subbed for a 6l6/5881... however IME a 6l6/5881 can be used in most cases with out any problems IF you do the rebiasing.... and one of the reasons i suggested in this case is because he was also contemplating the use of a SS rectifier which the 6l6/5881 would likely handle better.... despite lights assertions i have done this before and never experienced a problem with toasting a supply tranny... lucky??? perhaps... or perhaps the heater portion of the tranny was in fact over speced... cant say for sure... but there it is... also IME clients have prefered the sound of the 6l6/5881 over the 6v6... ymmv... i suspect it's because the output tranny started to oversaturate earlier... and alot of what some people like about the sound comes from just that on any tube piece... i've had guys ask me to put in smaller output trannies just for this.... doit... dont doit... i dont care... just trying to be of some help....
 
No, no, I am not contemplating using a SS rectifier- I am actually, and have been from the moment my guy sold me the SS rect, much more of a mind to use a tube rect.

So, to reiterate:
1. Gonna go back and exchange the SS rectifier for the tube one.
2. Gonna stay with the 6V6 tubes.
3. Ain't never gonna change to 6L6, or 5881's.
4. Ain't never gonna use a SS rectifer in this amp, unless I
A. Can't find a tube rectifier ANYWHERE, and
B. Someone gives me an iron-clad guarantee that it will not damage the amp,
and will do any repairs, caused by the rectifier or not, for as long as I own it, and
C. I somehow lose my mind.
5. (and this is the most important one) Ain't never, never, NEVER gonna post about it here, again. You guys like to argue, too much.:D
 
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