So Where's the Volume?

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dachay2tnr

dachay2tnr

One Hit Wonder
I'll probably show my ignorance with this post (and to think I just got promoted to Junior Member).

I've been using CW Pro Audio 9.03 for a couple of weeks now. I completed recording a song. Mixed several mono tracks down to a single stereo track and then exported the stereo track to a .wav. Next I burned the .wav file to CD using Adaptec EZ CD Creator.

Everything went pretty well and I was pleased with the results - but the CD was SIGNIFICANTLY lower in volume than any commercial CD I own.

So how do I increase the volume?

I found that if I set the volume in Track View to about 115 for the mixed down stereo track before exporting it to the .wav, I got better (louder) results. I'm not sure, however, this is the correct approach. I also think (but it could be my imagination) that the CD that has the higher volume sounds a bit harsher than the first - even when played at similar listening volumes on my home stereo.

Are any of you guys/girls burning CD's from the music you create in Cakewalk, and if so, how are you controlling the resulting volume?

Or is increasing the volume a step I shouldn't worry about until the music is "mastered"?
 
Congrats new J member -

I see no hint of ignorance. I get satisfactory results with the cw fx pack 1 - in fact I love it. But I am also thinking red roaster by sek'd.
 
dachay2tnr (shit how did you get a name like that?) :confused:
You can either insert a plugin compressor in the master output on your mixer or you can take the finished wave file and compress it in an external editor like Soundforge etc or load it back (import wave) into Cakewalk and compress it in cakewalk - i.e you need to compress you final mix.
Hope this helps
Cheers
John
 
Many thanks. You all seem to be saying the same thing - i.e., use compression, limiting or dynamics processing of some sort on the final mix.

I had been using compression on the final mix, but I took a closer look at these tools (I have CFX1 and the demo versions of db-audioware available), and I realized I have been leaving the "gain" set at zero.

I played with some of the presets in db-audioware, and I see some of these set the gain as high as 8-12 db. How much gain are you all typically using? And is it having any effect on the music (besides the wanted volume increase).

BTW, the Dynamics Processor in db-audioware is much better to my ears than the one in CFX-1. There goes another $100.
 
dachay2tnr - Gain is about making up the gain you've lost in compression. Compression is also called Gain Reduction. The dynamic range is reduced through compression and the gain must be made up which is why we can turn it up and make it louder. ;) Turn it up to peak to "0" (+6) again with the Gain or as it's often called Makeup Gain.
cheers
John
 
John - Assuming I have the headroom (which I think I do), do you see any problems with taking the gain even higher than that lost from compressing? I get worried about too much artificial playing around with the sound - but I guess it's like someone on this board told me, "use your ears to determine if it's working right".

BTW - dachay2tnr is from the a cappella group I sing with(The Dachays), in which I sing second tenor (2tnr). Not quite as creative as John Sayers, I imagine, but it works for me. :-)
 
Dachay2tnr - wow I used to sing in an a capella choir - great stuff - also makes your name make sense :D
 
Gentlemen: I seem to have ended up back where I started. This quote comes from the article referred to in Lambo's post:

"Don't use the output gain on the Compressor to get a healthy signal or you'll introduce more noise."

Is there no way to increase the volume on a track after it's recorded? Does the volume have to be inherent in the starting signal? What about raising the gain with compression and using a noise gate for the noise?

If compression reduces the dynamic range, thus allowing for average volume to be increased - how do you increase the average volume? It makes sense to me that if you compress WHILE recording, you could raise the recording level. But where's the benefit of compressing the signal after recording, unless I can use something to increase the gain?

Am I completely misunderstanding this stuff?
 
dachay2tnr - Sorry to have confused you more. The answer to your immediate need of bringing up the volume on a previously recorded track is "yes" you can. To do so, select the track (Cakewalk 9), click on Edit, scroll down to Audio which will bring up a sub-menu. You'll see 3db Louder. Select it and the entire track volume will be increased 3db. The point being made in the article regarding Compression/Limiting is that of good, basic practice. You want to record each track at the hottest signal (just below "0" unity gain where digital distorts) in order to achieve the best signal to noise ratio. Compression is a tool to level out a track by compressing the amplitute of the sound wave. (predicated by the settings, it is an automated level control). The experts believe in keeping the signal path pristine by not introducing additional electronics which add coloration and noise to the sound. The point being that all of the electronics available have their purpose which tends to get skewd by those of us who use them just because we have them. I am as guilty as anyone else on this. The bottom line is, if it sounds good, in that the final product represents the sound you're after, then go for it. :D
 
Final question (I hope).

I can increase the volume of a track in several ways:
1. the +3db command in audio edit
2. raising the fader in console view
3. putting a higher number in the volume field in track view
4. increasing the gain using a software compressor or limiter

Aside from the fact that #1 is a destructive edit while the others can be done non-destructively, is any one of these methods preferable? Or, are they all (in essence) simply different approaches to the same thing?

BTW, thanks for all the help. It is very useful to me to discuss these things, as ultimately it helps tremendously in my understanding (present case notwithstanding).
 
Is there a way to uniformly decrease the faders of all tracks (throughout the entire song) maintaining all the fader tweaks, in order to emphasize a particular track that just can't be boosted any higher.

I thought this question was related to increasing the volume, but maybe it deserves a new thread.
Thanks.
 
Not sure I fully understand what you are asking, but CW gives you the ability to group your faders.

If you <right click> on a fader a sub-menu will come up. If you select <group> you can assign that track to a group (e.g., "A"). If you do this to all the tracks in your mix, the faders will work in tandem, while still maintaining the original balance among them. You can then raise or lower the settings, without affecting the ratios between them.

You, of course, can also do this to just sub-mixes as well. In other words, if you have your drum kit on several tracks, you can create a grouping of just the drum tracks. Then you can raise or lower your entire kit in relationship to the rest of the mix, while still keeping the original balance between the snare, kick, etc.

If you want to reduce all the tracks except one - then create a group of all the tracks except the one you want to maintain. Once you group them you can lower any single fader and the rest will follow accordingly (except the one that is not part of the group).

BTW, you can also accomplish the same thing by reducing the Vol settings in Track View for the tracks you wish to lower. However, if you already have your mix established, the "group" approach with the faders will probably be an easier method.
 
dachay2tnr - check the levels on the output meters in the mixer. It will tell you what you peak levels are - if they don't even make it to the red section turn up the master faders. You can group them as you discussed earlier so they will move in tandem. That way you can get a full output without distortion. If you want to compress the mix, this is where you insert the compressor. (i.e. right click in the box above the meters)

Cheers
John
 
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