So when is it too much?

[Rokket]

I've been here since last October, and I have to say that I've learned so much from the many members of this awesome community. But maybe I've learned too much.

I wrote a song about my daughter, recorded it, then forgot about it. I tried to reproduce it, using my pc to mix, and my mr8 to record. I mic'd my amps, played around with positions until I found the "sweet" spot, and recorded it. The drums were mixed perfect, the bass was in your chest, the vocals were tight.

And it had no heart.

I found the original. I recorded everything DI into the mr-8, except the guitars. I mic'd them through a 10 watt practice amp. The vocal isn't my best effort, but it's got the emotion.
Everything was mixed via the mr-8, no outboard gear at all, and sent to my pc via the stereo analog outs. It was recorded with Roxio Easy CD creator 6 because it was all I had at the time.

I want to post it here, not so much for your thoughts on the mix (it's too loud, and about 100 other problems), but just so that I could ask: How much is too much when it comes to mastering? The other version of this song is technically superior in every way. But I like this one better, with all it's flaws.

What the hell is wrong with me?

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/eddiestoreymusic.htm

Feel free to flame me to death. It's recorded a bit too loud (the MR-8 was not clipping, but I didn't watch it when I recorded it on the PC), so hopefully you can listen to it long enough to laugh at my voice....

 

[noisedude]

You never learn too much - but what can happen is that you become an engineer rather than a musician. I wanted new mics and stuff over Christmas but bought a guitar amp first instead, to help me fall back in with my second love (the piano kicks the guitar's ass any day!).

Learning all this stuff should help you make your creative process more fruitful, not the other way around.

That said, I'm having problems with my DAW and so my recordings are pretty heartless.

 

[Rokket]

You never learn too much - but what can happen is that you become an engineer rather than a musician. I wanted new mics and stuff over Christmas but bought a guitar amp first instead, to help me fall back in with my second love (the piano kicks the guitar's ass any day!).

Learning all this stuff should help you make your creative process more fruitful, not the other way around.

That said, I'm having problems with my DAW and so my recordings are pretty heartless.

I think you are right. I was so concerned with getting the levels and the tone and all that other stuff right that I lost my concentration on the feeling BEHIND the music. I mean, I didn't even know how to finish this one off, but it's still better than the other one. Maybe I will space out the time in between rehearsing the perfect set up and recording. I use tracking diagrams when I record so that I can remember my settings....

 

[Daenn]

I do the exact the same thing. I feel your pain. I've recorded a few songs that at the time I thought sounded great, and a year later hated the recording but still liked the song. I tried to reproduce it and while it sure sounds better, it never seems to have the feel and excitement that you can hear in the first versions. Sometimes those flaws are what you come to love without realizing it.

 

[Middleman]

It takes a while to get your studio set up to allow ease of engineering without getting in the way of the performance. I use a wireless keyboard across the room by the vocal mic so that I don't have to run back and forth to the computer.

I also tried recording while at the computer but the fan noise was an issue.

Wireless keeps you on one side of the room, thinking about the music. Also having software that allows layered tracks is important so you can hit a couple of keys to rewind and record over.

The issue then is to keep the engineering low level and non intrusive when you are recording yourself.

 

[Tonio]

It takes a while to get your studio set up to allow ease of engineering without getting in the way of the performance. I use a wireless keyboard across the room by the vocal mic so that I don't have to run back and forth to the computer.

I also tried recording while at the computer but the fan noise was an issue.

Wireless keeps you on one side of the room, thinking about the music. Also having software that allows layered tracks is important so you can hit a couple of keys to rewind and record over.

The issue then is to keep the engineering low level and non intrusive when you are recording yourself.

Hey good one , gots to get another keyboard for that. Tired of schlepping back and forth on takes that don't cut it.

I have the same problem too revisiting old tunes and such. It always sounds better but the performance sux. Don't try it with a mix, cuz you'll drive yourself crazy. You have to make a decision when its done.

 

[noisedude]

I put my pc in another room and ran another kb and mouse off it. Works perfectly and now I have no fan noise in this room!

 

[Rokket]

I don't worry too much about noise, because I am using the Fostex MR-8, and the pre amps are fairly weak. I don't pick up too much noise. I DI my guitars, and I have a dynamic mic for vocals. I guess I just got too concerned with things. I am going to take a long look at my recording process and try to revamp. I may still redo that song, because I got so mad that I deleted the whole thing. I just wish I could use the vocal on this track, but I don't have the backups any longer because I don't have 2 hard drives. I can't keep them. Maybe I should get a zip drive and store them on there?
I don't know why, I guess all the planets were aligned and my mood was just right, but I can't reproduce that gay-ass boy band sound I got from the vocal on this track, and the new vocal I did doesn't fit as well....

 

[Track Rat]

When we record a song, it's a snapshot in time of a particular performance. And if the planets happened to be alligned properly and you're feeling it, whatever you happen to be tracking to is what you are tracking to, be it a 4 track cassette, a PC or a 2" 16 track. It's next to impossible to revisit that majic on demand when you happen to make an equipment upgrade.

 

[Rokket]

When we record a song, it's a snapshot in time of a particular performance. And if the planets happened to be alligned properly and you're feeling it, whatever you happen to be tracking to is what you are tracking to, be it a 4 track cassette, a PC or a 2" 16 track. It's next to impossible to revisit that majic on demand when you happen to make an equipment upgrade.

So I'm finding out!


I am going to record it again, anyway. Maybe I can find a decent vocalist. The biggest problem I have is my singing isn't that great anymore. I used to have a great voice. My sister had me sing Stryper's "Honestly" at her wedding, and some people commented that they thought I was lip syncing. I can't do that too much anymore, and this recording was the one time I had my voice close to what it used to be. Until I went up in key after the solo, anyway ! I guess I need to find some sort of vocal exercises and get my voice back in shape. I can sing pretty well in lower registers, but most of what I write is higher.... sigh....

 

[Rokket]

Un-fuckin-believable

I just got off the soundclick page I put this song up on, and the damn thing debuted at #47 on the guitar rock charts! That's really not saying much. I listened to some of the stuff that was higher on the charts than I was, and most if it is garbage. Actually, I think chart position on this site is determined by downloads, and I am pretty certain someone is probably there downloading his own song all night long to reach #1 . I don't care though.... I only put it there to pose my question.

 

[Love & Light]

Soundclick is a real ego boost!!! We had a song at Number 19 out of 20,000 or so!! But it was pure shit....just a cover for a few mates to hear.

It was downloaded about 80 times or so on the first day and it went in at number 19. We felt pretty good for a while until we heard a few tracks above us in the charts and realised that they were crap too!!

I'll have a listen to your track tonight rokket, I'm sure its very good.

 

[Rokket]

Soundclick is a real ego boost!!! We had a song at Number 19 out of 20,000 or so!! But it was pure shit....just a cover for a few mates to hear.

It was downloaded about 80 times or so on the first day and it went in at number 19. We felt pretty good for a while until we heard a few tracks above us in the charts and realised that they were crap too!!

I'll have a listen to your track tonight rokket, I'm sure its very good.

Thanks! I'm proud of the effort I put into it more than I am the quality of the recording. It was actually the first song I made after getting my MR-8 that I could consider a finished product.



And it sounds better than anything around it on the charts....

 

[Rokket]

Ha Ha Ha Ha HA HAAAAA HAAAAA!
I've climbed to #37 over night. 62 downloads in 2 days. At this rate, who knows. I just wonder how many people opened it and then slammed it closed saying "WTF? Ewwww!"






EDIT: My bust, I made it to #32!

 

[Toki987]

hahaha, I like the vibes you got. Cool tune, I couldnt make out parts of the singing. Dang good tracking for a first run on that mr8.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

I think you just need more practice nailing stuff with the right sounds to keep the performance aspect as top notch as the production.

One of the sad things in AE is measuring performance vs. production. You have to make choices between these a LOT. Personally I'll take performance every time.

Try not to be such a perfectionist or use as much deep editing... that can iron out the heart of music. Much of the disdain for ProTools or DAW's in general isn't as much their sonic quality (or lack thereof) but the irresistable desire to USE that power to make everything perfect.

When you have a handle on AE you can pretty much setup with little fuss and just GO. In fact, if you ever expect to be a pro AE you had better be able to get the session moving ASAP or the musicians will definately start getting irritated--especially if they pay by the hour and you are futzing around with the patchbay trying to route audio to your recorder.

Also--and this is super important--you have to keep in mind that PRODUCING yourself is difficult. One on hand you are worrying about all this AE crap, proper mic position, adjusting gain, routing this to that, etc... and on the other hand you are worrying about the performance--how to sing this part, what should I play here, and so on.

Literally producer mode and performer mode are two different beasts. That's why very few bands 100% produce themselves. You need to focus on PLAYING your music, not on whether or not you should use an AKG 414BULS for overheads over the Earthworks QTC-1's.

That's why third party AE's get hired. We focus on the technical, the client can focus on playing. It's a lot less headache.

 

[Rokket]

As always, Cloneboy, your words are true wisdom to live by. I guess it's just going to take some time getting used to the gear. I expected that. My biggest problem is that after hearing what everone else was posting, critiquing, learning what to listen for, I started applying that to my own recordings.
That was the end-all show-stopper. I guess I should dial it back a few notches and start having fun with it again.
Thanks again for the encouragement.
Toki, thanks for the listen! I couldn't believe how well it turned out for a first try either. And it sounds pro compared to the other, uh... songs? on the soundclick charts around it. I am going to look later on after they update and see where it goes. I will probably take it down in another day or two and replace it with my daughter's (she's 3) rendition of "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" just for a laugh....

 

[Rokket]

hahaha, I like the vibes you got. Cool tune, I couldnt make out parts of the singing. Dang good tracking for a first run on that mr8.

I think the problem with the vocal is lack of a decent mic (audio technica pro 100, which I think is only made in Japan) and no pre amp.

I didn't have a pop filter, so I wrapped a tube sock around it to try and cut some of the plosives, and probably took the highs right out of it too....



I just remembered that I didn't have that AT mic when I did this. I used the mic that came with my wife's DVD/karaoke machine! It's made by Panasonic, who make good DVD players, lousy mics

 

[noisedude]

You need to focus on PLAYING your music, not on whether or not you should use an AKG 414BULS for overheads over the Earthworks QTC-1's.

Although I would kill for that specific problem, I totally agree. I spent an entire day in the studio today and it was a nightmare because I was tracking everything but drums and bass (half a dozen guitar parts, three lots of vox and assorted keyboards and noises) whilst simultaneously being the only one who knew how stuff worked. I was stood in the live room on the mic going, "now send it through the left side of group 1-2, now check the level on the HD24" when I wanted to be preparing myself.

What I got was a 'clinical' performance with no soul in a song I cried whilst writing. And the technical side didn't go so well either. And I made mistakes through thinking about whether I'd set my Blumein pair up properly when I should have been trying to remember how many choruses there were. That can't be right!

 

[Rokket]

Although I would kill for that specific problem, I totally agree. I spent an entire day in the studio today and it was a nightmare because I was tracking everything but drums and bass (half a dozen guitar parts, three lots of vox and assorted keyboards and noises) whilst simultaneously being the only one who knew how stuff worked. I was stood in the live room on the mic going, "now send it through the left side of group 1-2, now check the level on the HD24" when I wanted to be preparing myself.

What I got was a 'clinical' performance with no soul in a song I cried whilst writing. And the technical side didn't go so well either. And I made mistakes through thinking about whether I'd set my Blumein pair up properly when I should have been trying to remember how many choruses there were. That can't be right!

I hear you loud and clear! It's the reason I am keeping things simple right now. I don't have anyone else who knows how to work things either. I can set up the MR-8 right next to me, no worries about noise. The only time I worry about it is when I am doing vocals, and not wanting the mic to pick up the headphones. I don't have a decent pair, so sometimes it's a bother.
So I set it all up, check levels, get it all prepared. Then leave it alone for awhile. When I get some quiet time (rare for me nowadays) it's just me and my guitar, and I work out the song until I can do it in my sleep. That way I end up being able to play with by rote, and I can inject the emotion. It's the same with the vocals. I will sing them until I don't have to follow my lyrics sheet. Then I track them. All lessons learned over the last couple weeks while I was struggling with the outcome of this original song and what happened during the last recording of it.
I'll get it right one day.


By the by, did you get your problem solved with the popping yet?

Eddie