So What's the deal with insert points?

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BrettB

BrettB

Well-known member
hi all,

I got a bit confused by a post about insert points recentely.

What I know, of think is right, let's put it this way: an insert point is an out/input after the pre-amp, used for some prefade compression or Eq (at least this is how I use it). In a previous post I read that when you got no direct outs on your channels you can use your insert point as tape output. I never heared of that kind of use.

So if you use it that way, it is off course used prefade, and so you use you're mixer for monitoring, I mean: you can't use your faders to balance the inputs?

Or is there a hiatus in this point of view?
 
What you are doing with an insert-steal direct out is multing the signal: it goes both to the fader and the rest of the board, as usual, but it _also_ goes to whatever destination you route the steal to.

So, if you're driving a multitrack with pre-fader insert steals, you set the record level with the channel's preamp gain control. And you can then build a monitor mix as you usually would using the faders. What you have to get used to is that the faders don't control the recod level- only the channel's gain trim does that. The only thing the faders control is your monitor mix.
 
Heya fella belgian.
an insert point is an out/input after the pre-amp, used for some prefade compression or Eq
Click to expand...
Jup. So, if you want to use it as direct out (which is an output right after the micpre, or after eq sometimes), you just take out the signal and to whereever you want to take it. You can in this case feed the original system back into the insert, by using special cables (the tip and ring of the trs-insert jack are connected), or just don't feed in anything...

Offcourse this is prefade, but that's what you want right? Set the levels with the micpre's, and adjust the faders to get a mix for monitoring...

Aren't direct outs prefade too?
 
Roel said:
Heya fella belgian.



Aren't direct outs prefade too?
Click to expand...

Hi guys,

thanx for your replies!! You kinda comfrim what I thought, but I wasn't really sure.

But now I'm a bit confused with that direct out/pre fade stuff. At home I haven't got a mixer yet, I record direct in my soundcard because I only use it for small demo's for myself, and my other mixing experience is at a friend who has a Vs-1680 and at my school, and there is Mackie Db8, configured with a 16 track fostex and protools.

The Mackie works with different banks for the inputs and the monitors, so the direct outscome after the faders from the mic bank and before the tape returns off course. So maybe my question about inserts was a bit idiot. Only when you got some big ass inline mixer you have different faders for your inputs, but each of us homerecordes uses his mixer as monitoring, or am I wrong again.

And when direct outs are prefade, what's the difference with inserts? The fact that you return your insert directly?


Btw roel, I don't know if you follow the World Cup, but man, am I glad we won against the Russians!!
 
I just checked on the blockdiagram of the GL2200 (here)...

There's some options with internal links, but the idea there is that the insert is directly behind the preamp, so that's before the insert. The direct out is switchable, pre/post fader, pre/post eq, and pre/post mute... This is not really switchable since you have to open up the thing and solder the links, but there is a choice in a way...

This probably differs from mixer to mixer. You can get most manuals online, so if you want to check it for a particular mixer...
 
That Mackie is digital so they can play with the signal in different ways since there really is no fader circuit. The fader on a digital board just tells the computer what to do.

In an analog board the idea is to keep your recording path as short as possible and not run it through any extra circuitry like a fader, EQ or mix buss. If you can control the level with the pot than the fader is a little redundant. Many cheap EQ circuits can also alter the sound even when set to bypass.
 
I have a mackie 1604vlz pro which is analog.

i record through the inserts using a TRS cable.

which means that the only part of the mixer that goes into the recording is the pre-amp. no EQ, or faders.

my soundcard has a digital patchbay, so i route the input back to the output.

that way i hear what i recorded and can control the level of the playback (real time) with my mixers faders.
 
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