so. what is the point of exclusive reference monitors?

[kidkage]

I've been doing some reading and research.
As always.
And I've come to learn that there are apparently different types of studio monitors.
Monitors that you mix on, and monitors that you reference on.
Not just like Logitech or Sony sound system monitors that you reference on. I understand those. But monitors designed with reference in mind.
I'm having the trouble understanding the point of the different types if the goal of all is to have universal translation.

Take something like these: Avantone Audio Active MixCubes (Retro Cream) | Sweetwater.com
If those are designed as 'B' monitors marketed to sound like headphones, stereos, and other consumer listening products so your mixes can translate everywhere well.
And something like these: KRK Expose E8B | Sweetwater.com are also designed so your mixes can have that precious universal translation.

I know the whole regurgitated "iPod cameras shouldnt make movies just because you'll watch them on an iPod" point.
But are specific reference monitors all that necessary? I thought thats why you buy crazy expensive monitors to mix on in the first place.
Or do they without a doubt eliminate the need to do a handful of references on cars, and iPods (even though people are going to do them anyway )? If that's the case why not just mix on them?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The implied claim of the KRKs is that they are accurate. The expressly stated claim of the Avantones is that they are not generally accurate but they give a useful idea of what your mix will sound like on playback devices lacking in bass response. Most studio monitors aspire to be as accurate as possible but some, like the Avantones (an update of the Auratone cubes) are designed to offer another perspective. In recent years it has become possible to take a perfect copy (CD or file) of your mix and try it on various systems, which you should do, but speakers like the Avantones may allow you to do something similar without having to leave the studio.

Check out this review of the non-powered version of the Avantones: Avantone Mixcubes

 

[RawDepth]

That Cube ad is just marketing hype. Translated, it says this, "...gives you the ability to hear what your mixes will sound like on poorly designed cube-shaped monitors with no bass."

You can have a few extra sets of reference monitors if you want, but you still need to listen to your mixes in different environments. The "room" changes the way speakers sound and no reference monitor can simulate that. There are no short cuts to getting a mix that translates until you get to know your monitors well.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Just put it on soundcloud or something like that (or on an ipod for those who don't have smart phones), then you can just listen to it on pretty much any system. I listen in both my vehicles, through the TV, with some cheapy computer speakers, and through whatever sets of monitors are hooked up.

Most interfaces have monitor outs and headphone outs, just hook up some cheapy computer monitors to the headphone out and you have a reference set.

 

[ollie99]

whether I had reference speakers or not I would definitely still test it on every other device I can find, I wouldnt feel "safe" without doing so if anyone gets me

 

[bouldersoundguy]

The cubes were a good idea when you couldn't just post it or take a file and the only way you could come back to make small tweaks was to leave the mixer and rack untouched until your return. Having multiple monitors in the studio was the only way to check your mix on different speakers.

 

[ollie99]

The cubes were a good idea when you couldn't just post it or take a file and the only way you could come back to make small tweaks was to leave the mixer and rack untouched until your return. Having multiple monitors in the studio was the only way to check your mix on different speakers.

are you saying basically that they were more a thing of the past?

 

[kidkage]

ohhh. ok.
so it was just a misunderstanding on my part then
basically just a place in the market that avantone uses then?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

are you saying basically that they were more a thing of the past?

Pretty much. Imagine having no good way to take a mix around to different systems beyond cassette or, if you go back further, acetate disc. (Some people had open reel decks, but not that many.) Your record company is breathing down your neck to get the next record out. Even if you could check the mix elsewhere there's another band scheduled for the next day so your mixer and outboard will get zeroed out meaning you'll have to reschedule and start all over, or if there isn't another band coming in the cleaning lady might mess up the board when she dusts the control room. You have one shot at getting it done and you don't want something that's going to sound wrong on all those transistor radios and AM stations. So you have a pair of small speakers in the control room to hopefully let you know if there's anything grossly wrong with the mix when heard on little speakers or other bass challenged systems.

Now you just stick the file on a USB drive and/or burn a disc and take it around to every system you can, then go back and bring up the project in your DAW and tweak away.

 

[ollie99]

Pretty much. Imagine having no good way to take a mix around to different systems beyond cassette or, if you go back further, acetate disc. (Some people had open reel decks, but not that many.) Your record company is breathing down your neck to get the next record out. Even if you could check the mix elsewhere there's another band scheduled for the next day so your mixer and outboard will get zeroed out meaning you'll have to reschedule and start all over, or if there isn't another band coming in the cleaning lady might mess up the board when she dusts the control room. You have one shot at getting it done and you don't want something that's going to sound wrong on all those transistor radios and AM stations. So you have a pair of small speakers in the control room to hopefully let you know if there's anything grossly wrong with the mix when heard on little speakers or other bass challenged systems.

Now you just stick the file on a USB drive and/or burn a disc and take it around to every system you can, then go back and bring up the project in your DAW and tweak away.

I see, I'd never heard of them until Kidkage brought it up. What I am going to do is burn it on a disc, play it on my dads old stereo system, play it in the dvd player connected to speakers, play it in a cheap cd player, play it through cheapish computer speakers, play it through the TV using the ps3 and play it in the car - that covers pretty much everything doesnt it?

 

[AtoDeficient]

- that covers pretty much everything doesnt it?

I do most of that and two more- - - I listen from another room, which is very revealing to me, and lastly, I use cheap ear-buds. . . After all that, when it's good, I force myself to quit and accept that it's the best I can do, and it is what it is.

 

[ollie99]

I do most of that and two more- - - I listen from another room, which is very revealing to me, and lastly, I use cheap ear-buds. . . After all that, when it's good, I force myself to quit and accept that it's the best I can do, and it is what it is.

ah yes, that's not a bad idea. I might also listen to it then listen to songs which I want it to sound similar to so I can compare how I've done and see what changed I could make

 

[AtoDeficient]

ah yes, that's not a bad idea. I might also listen to it then listen to songs which I want it to sound similar to so I can compare how I've done and see what changed I could make

Well, I reference my mixes to others early in the process, usually to get the basic sound, the punch, the body of the rhythm section. . . The listening from another room is invaluable to me. . . For those who haven't tried this, they should. . It will be interesting when they do. . .

 

[kidkage]

Yeah, when I mixed my first stuff I didn't do multiple tests at all.
I was working on a tascam dp008 with limited outputs, no proper way to reference, and no useful metering, or post-processing either. So I mixed on headphones, put it on a CD and bam.
They sucked.
Moving to a computer based system has changed everything for me. I can see the levels, I can check monitors, headphones, put it in the cloud and check on other sytems, or just export it and take it to my car, another room, and of course, the all important Zune test. I listen to most music on there so, if the stereo image, level, and mix is right on there then I'm good.
That being said, I haven't done that yet since I haven't worked on much of my own stuff, but at least I know what to do now and am confident that I can fix things.


Is there anything 'wrong' with referencing current projects with mp3's?
Or should you try to reference with .wav or something else of higher quality?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Is there anything 'wrong' with referencing current projects with mp3's?
Or should you try to reference with .wav or something else of higher quality?

Definitely reference an uncompressed (data, not dynamics) recording.

 

[frazo]

definitely uncompressed! if you use mp3 your mix will probably sound fatter if you compare it, but only as long as you listen to the compressed version!