So now that we're in the age of "free music" and downloading full albums...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Steve Henningsgard
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Steve Henningsgard

Steve Henningsgard

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Is it finally time for the loudness wars to end? Could it be? I mean, with unlimited bandwidth and insane amounts of storage space, could an artist indeed offer multiple versions of their albums at once? For instance, a mastered version, an un-mastered 24-bit version, mp3's, FLAC, apple lossless, WAV, etc?!

My brain's spinning...
 
steve.h said:
Is it finally time for the loudness wars to end? Could it be? I mean, with unlimited bandwidth and insane amounts of storage space, could an artist indeed offer multiple versions of their albums at once? For instance, a mastered version, an un-mastered 24-bit version, mp3's, FLAC, apple lossless, WAV, etc?!

My brain's spinning...
Click to expand...

I think someone is doing that right now. A big artist who's name escapes me this early in the morning....The times they are a changin' for sure.
 
Nine Inch Nails did basically the same thing, which is what brought up the conversation. With his (their) particular album, there wasn't much mastering done anyway as it's a mostly ambient album. I figured it might be an interesting, relevant topic of conversation, as many of us talk about trying to end the loudness war and don't really have any idea of how to do so!

Just an interesting convo starter hopefully :)
 
steve.h said:
Nine Inch Nails did basically the same thing, which is what brought up the conversation. With his (their) particular album, there wasn't much mastering done anyway as it's a mostly ambient album. I figured it might be an interesting, relevant topic of conversation, as many of us talk about trying to end the loudness war and don't really have any idea of how to do so!

Just an interesting convo starter hopefully :)
Click to expand...

He got the idea from Radiohead. It's a big middle finger to the record labels.
 
sometimes overcompressed distorted insanity can be nice, just for the sound of...overcompressed distorted insanity :P
 
steve.h said:
Nine Inch Nails did basically the same thing, which is what brought up the conversation. With his (their) particular album, there wasn't much mastering done anyway as it's a mostly ambient album. I figured it might be an interesting, relevant topic of conversation, as many of us talk about trying to end the loudness war and don't really have any idea of how to do so!

Just an interesting convo starter hopefully :)
Click to expand...

Any commercial record - even the NIN - has been mastered. "Mastering" doesn't always mean "crazy loudness wars brickwall limiting." Even a brickwall limited master by a decent ME will translate better on many systems than an unmastered mix.

I doubt we'll ever see major artists putting out "unmastered" stuff. 24 bit? Maybe, but that would mean lots of people having to upgrade their home stereo/computer setups. This is basically why dvda and sacd haven't caught on yet, and probably won't. The average consumer doesn't really know about 16 bit vs 24 bit and different samplerates and all that great stuff. It's a bit over their heads to be explaining a new format like this, and to tell you the truth, a lot of them probably wouldn't hear or appreciate the difference. Hell, most are more than happy to listen to less than cd quality mp3s!!
 
Dax Productions said:
Any commercial record - even the NIN - has been mastered. "Mastering" doesn't always mean "crazy loudness wars brickwall limiting." Even a brickwall limited master by a decent ME will translate better on many systems than an unmastered mix.
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You are very much correct with respect to commercial records and translating better on different systems. Perhaps it would be more correct (and an all-around better idea) to put out a mastered without increased loudness version then?

Dax Productions said:
I doubt we'll ever see major artists putting out "unmastered" stuff. 24 bit? Maybe, but that would mean lots of people having to upgrade their home stereo/computer setups. This is basically why dvda and sacd haven't caught on yet, and probably won't. The average consumer doesn't really know about 16 bit vs 24 bit and different samplerates and all that great stuff. It's a bit over their heads to be explaining a new format like this, and to tell you the truth, a lot of them probably wouldn't hear or appreciate the difference. Hell, most are more than happy to listen to less than cd quality mp3s!!
Click to expand...
It's all about creating awareness though, at least in my eyes. If you're the average consumer, and one of your favorite bands releases an album, with a version that they call the "super-high-quality" version (being a sane-levels-mastered, 24-bit version), it's pretty likely that you'll at least ask a friend wtf "24 bits" means. With the internet so prevalent at this point, many people will go online and learn about it. If people don't know it's an option, they sure as shit won't choose it!
 
steve.h said:
It's all about creating awareness though, at least in my eyes. If you're the average consumer, and one of your favorite bands releases an album, with a version that they call the "super-high-quality" version (being a sane-levels-mastered, 24-bit version), it's pretty likely that you'll at least ask a friend wtf "24 bits" means. With the internet so prevalent at this point, many people will go online and learn about it. If people don't know it's an option, they sure as shit won't choose it!
Click to expand...

Yes, I wish this was the way people thought. But the way it seems to work is that people just want whatever they can quickly download and stick on their ipod. They've already tried the "super-high-quality" version. That's what DVDA and SACD was. It was a nonstarter, because non-audiophiles don't really see the point in buying another disc based format player when they've got an ipod already.

I think we'll see downloadable content rise in quality within the next 5 years though. Internet connections are getting faster and hard drives cheaper. I was just at costco and they had a 2 tb drive for under $500. Amazing! So, within a few years I think we'll be seeing a 24 bit lossless format online. A step towards this is apple offering higher bitrate downloads for a few more dimes. So basically, any improvements we see won't be because of consumer demand for better quality. It will simply be a logical stepup based on the average home PC's available bandwidth.

As far as how this will affect the loudness wars? Only time will tell. You, I and anyone one on this board can appreciate a more subtle approach to master limiting, but the fact is, most consumers have no clue about this stuff, and probably could care less. In fact, if you played a "properly" mastered song for an average joe, and then played him the brickwalled version, he'd probably say that the brickwall version sounds more exciting.
 
I can agree that "loudness wars" are a stupid and useless... but I don't entirely agree with some people's mortal fear of squashing the snot out of a mix.....

you know, I can understand if something in inappropriate for the sound, but there are some cases when having a really face splitting, pinned, mastering job IS more appropriate for the mix. Let's just put it this way, I've had people tell me, about some mixes of mine "it's so nice to see someone who allows it to breathe and doesn't squash the shit out of it"... well... they should look at the waveforms, lol... visually..they can tend to look like the worst case examples used in the "loudness wars" argument... and guess what... that's right out of Logic (I don't do any compression in the mastering at all, or really much in the way of mastering, just minute things to make sure all the songs have continuity, just a little eq for consistency usually. ;) But of course, I just took the compliment and kept my mouth shut.

massive amounts of compression and distortion can be used as a tool as well... I mean, hell, sometimes instead of mixing with faders I just add different degrees/different types of distortion to tracks, like overdriving a certain EQ or Compressor plugin to a certain degree, or whatever.... :D just because most people don't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done...then again if you're doing music that wouldn't sound good that way, that's another story.
 
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