Snare Too Loud in OHs w/ Glyn Johns Mic Technique

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adam79

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I've been using the Glyn Johns Mic Technique for my drum kit with great results, but the snare is picking up too loud on the overheads. Is there a way to cut it's volume down? Is that what the duct tape on the drum skins is for? Thanks.
 
The Glyn Johns technique may simply be incompatible with your playing style. If adjusting your playing isn't an option perhaps a different mic technique is the way to go. You could try different snares, heads, tuning or damping but I doubt that will be a solution.
 
To loud? Can you post a clip? I'm actually interested in hearing it. I've never heard anyone complain of the snare being to loud in the OH before, it's usually the high hats.
 
Too loud compared to what?

One of the downsides to the Glyn John's method is that the drummer has to basically mix the drums as he is playing, since there is no way to adjust the relative volumes later.

The good side is, if you are the drummer, once you learn how to mix yourself as you are playing, you are a much better and more useful drummer than a lot of drummers out there. Recording drums will become much easier, no matter what method you use and bleed will no longer be a problem.

But for tracks you have already recorded, your only hope will be a lot of compression.
 
Guitargodgt said:
To loud? Can you post a clip? I'm actually interested in hearing it. I've never heard anyone complain of the snare being to loud in the OH before, it's usually the high hats.
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Here's a angle for you. I track -typically, with a pair of kit' mics- happen to be a wide side placement but irrelevant, kick, snare, hat sometimes, and some option' adds like mono FOK, room what have you.
With at least one of our good and really strong (competent and strong) local drummers I've tracked I've ended up with lots ('too much' in our context here) of snare.
Not so much when he's using toms, fills, cymbals and such, but more when it's just kick hat and snare. There, I've struggle with not enough 'kit'- i.e. just too narrow' pointy' in the mix.
'Placement (other than FOK to some degree) is going to 'fix this particular problem.
Farview said:
But for tracks you have already recorded, your only hope will be a lot of compression.
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I've come up with quite a little selection of comp/limiter schemes as a result. All in part- aimed at eking out the sound of 'a kit' setting apropos for the mix.
 
Don't play the snare so hard, get a quieter snare.

Sounds obvious I know, but a lot of drummers bash the daylights out of the snare then tap on the toms, the mics can only pick up what is happening. I have the same trouble with some drummers when I multi mic the kit, every mic with loads of snare, the snare is hit hard the snare is too loud.

Alan.
 
I agree with Farview that if tracking is already finished, limiting or compression with zero attack will easily trim down transient peaks.

To answer your question, a dead-ringer (a flat tone control ring,) on the snare head will tame it down some. Otherwise, the snare may be tuned too tightly.

However, if you like the snare sound, but don't like the results of that recording method, then you've either chosen the wrong method or have not tweaked it enough to suite. Tilt the OH mic away from whatever is too loud and more toward whatever is not loud enough. Add another mic or two if necessary and/or close-mic whatever items you want sounding bigger. There are no rules, only results.
 
RawDepth said:
I agree with Farview that if tracking is already finished, limiting or compression with zero attack will easily trim down transient peaks.

To answer your question, a dead-ringer (a flat tone control ring,) on the snare head will tame it down some. Otherwise, the snare may be tuned too tightly.

However, if you like the snare sound, but don't like the results of that recording method, then you've either chosen the wrong method or have not tweaked it enough to suite. Tilt the OH mic away from whatever is too loud and more toward whatever is not loud enough. Add another mic or two if necessary and/or close-mic whatever items you want sounding bigger. There are no rules, only results.
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That's actually what I did with good results...I just moved the high OH a bit off the snare; I had it right over it initially. It's also true about controlling the recording outcome by how hard/soft you hit the skins. I've just been messing around with the mic placement so far. I've got plans to record a friend's band along with some demos of my own, so I'm just trying to get everything placed correctly before they come in. It's coming along well. I'm really digging the Glyn Johns method. I can play the drums, but won't be the drummer for the band I'm starting up. However, I plan of finding a proper drummer, and if they don't understand how to hit the skins, they aren't right for the gig.

I've been using the Glyn Johns method cuz of my lack of mics; my mic locker is pathetic at this point.. a pair of MCA SP1's, a SM 57 and a shitty $40 Shure AXS 2. My next purchase will be a kick/bass mic. Probably a vintage Sennheiser MD-421; I've read that the U4 and U5 are the ones to get, as far as the original variants go. I've only heard the 421 on YouTube kick/bass shootouts and always like it best. A local rental place has one of the newer models, a U mkII. I'm gonna rent it for the day just so I can check it out and hear it with my own ears. I figure that if I like the newer model, I'll like the vintage one that much better. I'm a bit hesitant buying a vintage one tho. Besides having to buy it off an internet site without even hearing it first (although it's advertised with low hours and in excellent condition), I recently read an article with a Sennheiser rep who was saying that parts for the older German mics are getting harder to come by...the stock is running low. Obviously I'm hoping the one I get doesn't break, but it's something you have to prepare for.

Oh ya, what's Mono FOK?
 
I used both the 421s for kick over the years. They are two slightly different flavors of the same thing. I always used anot her mic outside the kick along with it, because it always seemed a little things. (But I really liked the attack the 421 got)

I wouldn't get hung up on finding a vintage one. They aren't that different. The older ones are more mellow, but who knows if they were that way originally, or if they just get that way after 30 years...
 
Farview said:
I used both the 421s for kick over the years. They are two slightly different flavors of the same thing. I always used anot her mic outside the kick along with it, because it always seemed a little things. (But I really liked the attack the 421 got)

I wouldn't get hung up on finding a vintage one. They aren't that different. The older ones are more mellow, but who knows if they were that way originally, or if they just get that way after 30 years...
Click to expand...

What do u mean by "it always seemed a little things?" You mean thin?
Ive heard other people say there isnt much difference in sound between the originals and new models. What variant of the new models would u suggest trying? Thanks.
 
I think ibleedburgundy uses this technique. Maybe he'll chime in.
 
Yes, I meant thin. Typing on the phone is treacherous sometimes.

Whatever 421 you can get ahold of will be fine. I had two u5's that didn't sound exactly the same and two 421II's. I would use them all pretty interchangeably. I haven't bought a new one since the early 2000'stages so I don't know what out at he moment.
 
What I did a while back was use some side chain compression so the snare mic dips the overheads. Generally this was not a volume solution but because I wanted more tone control over the snare hit. It might work for your situation though.
 
Dont forget eq. Here is a trick I use. Copy your track with the strongest snare. One one track find the frequency the snare is in. Bring that frequency down so you hear a dramatic volume change. Using your faders bring the original strong track down all the way, then bring up until you hear a good mix.
 
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