I think all the advice about placement is dead on. Certainly, a cardiod mic is going to reject really well from directly behind the mic. Actually, if you check to cardiod pattern, excellent rejection can happen with anything 90 degrees from the top of the capsule. Try playing with that and you should get better results.
Bottom micing is totally overrated. I will not say don't try it if you have to mics, preamps, and tracks to do so, but don't sweat it. I find myself usually turning that track off at mix time anyway.
Tim, I am sure that the Beyer is an excellent sounding mic. But, I have done too many great sounding snare tracks with a 57 to discount it on snare. Having never heard any of your work, I cannot comment of course on it. But really, a lot of great drum tracks have been recorded with SM-57's. If your 57's are not too banged up from you *gasp!* "driving nails with them", please feel free to send them to me in exchange for a nice hammer I have....
Now, let's address this issue of drummers not adjusting to the situation.
I am about to shoot the lot of you drummers who feel that you have to have every single drum within 1mm of each other, and every damn cymbal 2" above the toms!!!
I cannot count how many drummers I have mixed live and recorded who do this and WILL NOT adjust. Without fail, the drum sounds are compromised because of this (I have found that most drummers that do this don't tune their set's so well either, but that isn't the discussion here....). I think tonyA said it best when he suggested that a drummer who's playing is going to be effected by moving some stuff around to foster more room for mic placement is probably a beginner. I will add that if you are NOT a beginner and are like this, you haven't accepted the reality of modern drum mic techniques, or maybe don't hear so well, or something. This is some of the most complained about stuff from sound engineers world wide for me to accept that it is our lack of competency.
Without fail, the best drum tracks I have recorded, or mixed live is where the drummer played cymbals at least 1' above any drum. I have seen them as high as 2'. I can settle for cymbals 1' away from any drum. The isolation this provides is excellent when micing.
I have drummed before in bands. I found that once my chops were up that having cymbals away from drums was abosolutely no problem to do, and engineers appreciate this. The reason is that I have found the most natural drum sounds to come from having the mics around 3-5" off of the head. If you have cymbals right there, of course you will have unappropriate bleed. The reality is that if you are playing live, the soundman 95% of the time is going to be using SM-57's, not some tiny capsule specialized drum mic. This is the REALITY that drummers MUST deal with if they want good drum sounds. The soundman is not going to be able to pull out some other mic out of his ass on the spot. I can assure you too that most competent soundmen are not going to want to deal with an unfamiliar mic. Unless you have the benefit of a nice long soundcheck, the soundman needs to go with what he knows, and some new mic does not fit the equasion. Drummers, this is the REALITY here, not shit I am making up. Accept it and start practicing with a setup that is more cooperative to micing and in no time you will never know the difference in your playing.
Okay, that part of the rant is over.
Next!
Drummers!!!!!!!! Do you HAVE to beat the shit out of your cymbals? Really, do you?
Set dynamics are very important. In most recording situations, 2 overhead mics and a kick drum mic can sound awesome and provide the most natural drum sound. The problem starts with drummers who beat the hell out of their cymbals compared to how hard they play their snare and toms. Especially with the TOMS!!! Too many times, I have a great sound on the snare and toms with overheads but end up cutting out all the low end on those mics at mix because the drummer just plain flat out plays their cymbals too loud. So loud that they are out of balance with the rest of the kit! Again, sound is compromised because the drummer will not compromise or has no real understanding of what what it takes to get good sound drums on tape.
So, off I go to close up micing being the prominent sound. Then I get to listen to the drummer bitch about how his drums don't sound all that natural. Blah blah blah, etc etc etc......Then I deal with the cymbals being too close to the close up mics....blah blah blah, etc etc etc...... Now I have to use noise gates, or spend a shit load of time in a digital editor (if budget allows) to deal with this, and the sound becomes MORE unnatural. Like it is MY fault that the drummer is basically messed up and cannot work with the reality of micing drums. Compromised sound, and usually with the types of musicians who cannot afford the band aid fixes.
Bullshit!!!
It is like the guitar player who has all low end and high end in his guitar sound with no mids at all, and with too much distortion. I am supposed to deal with THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? just because the guy does not have enough control on his chops to play with a tone that actually works within a band context?
It is like the bass player who beats the hell out of his bass strings and then complains that he cannot get a clear sound. He increases his low end to try to compensate, and in the back of the room it is nothing BUT low end. (hey bass players, tell me I am wrong, but you could more easily count the times a soundman DIDN'T ask you to turn down right? I will be money on it.....)
It is like the singer who wispers 4" off of a mic, then shouts right on it, then complains that he cannot hear the wisper and that the monitors are distorting when he shouts. (oh, thanks for blowing my monitors dude!)
It is about compromise, and for too long, it is the soundman compromising all the way with people who lack the experience and/or talent to do it the way it works well.
I NEVER question the soundman (unless I have heard really shitty mixes from them on bands I have mixed that I know sound very good) when they ask me to do certain things with my sound when I play live. In the studio, on the rare cases I let others record me, I certainly take into account the engineers ideas about my sound. If I am unfamiliar with their room or monitors, I have little choice in the matter really. The reality is that I hired them in the studio because they know their business. Live, if I have heard great mixes from them, I do not question what they need from my sound one bit. If it effects my playing too much having to move a cymbal, or change the eq on my guitar, I may bring this up and ask them what they think, but I do so in a manner that makes them feel that what they need is JUST as important and what I need. In the end though, I tell them that I will do whatever they need to make it sound good and sacrifice what I want to achieve that. I have had live board mixes on nights when I couldn't hear myself at all and found that I played just fine. This is because I PRACTICE enough to be confident that I can play with only a tempo reference. I have played drums just fine not hearing the rest of the band because of bad monitors.
Do I like not hearing myself the way I want to? No. Do I like having to accomodate the soundman in my setup? No. Do I want to sound the best that is possible and am willing to do what it takes to achieve that? YES!!! THAT is what being professional is about.
I could go on and on about this. All's that I can really say is that the more professional the musician is, the more willing I find them to compromise on sound issues. It is usually the inexperienced and/or sloppy musicians, and one's with ego's bigger than the number of people paying to see them that are the problems. Any other pro's find this to be the case? Feel free to speak your peace for the benefit of others. One thing I hate about this business is how most people in production feel that they have to accomodate the musicians ego at the sacrifice of doing what would be best for the sound. Ever asked the soundman how you sounded and they say "Great", then when you ask your musician friend for an honest to god truthful answer, they list off a bunch of things? Don't ask your girlfriend and expect a real answer, she was just checking out your dick all night and making sure that other girls knew she was with you. As long as she could hear YOU she was happy, and she probably moved all over the room until she could.....
Keith_H, take a bit of advice from a guy who played his first gig in 1982 and played hundreds of shows on three different instruments AND sang too, and has mixed countless bands live (many signed artists and a handful of grammy award winning artists), recorded over 100 bands, and is still doing it, LEARN TO COMPROMISE! You are going to find that doing certain things in certain ways is going to work out a majority of the time. If your drum sounds are compromised because you cannot set up a little bit differently, THAT is the reality. You either compromise a bit on your set up and/or the way you play, or the sound is compromised. Until the day that you can AFFORD to have whatever the hell you want in a setup, playing dynamics, etc.....you will find much better receptivity from people you have to WORK WITH if you are versatile.
Good luck.
Ed
