Snap to grid recording?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Eisenbart
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Eisenbart

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Hi folks!

I am presently playing around with recording into Sonar. I have connected my Boss DR-660 to my sound cards midi port and recording basically works fine. However, I have a kind of a synchronisation problem or something like that:

I set Sonar to record at 120 and play back from the DR-660 at the same speed. Howrever, the notes are not properly aligned; if I record a simple groove, I want each note to start at 01:01:000, 01:02:000 and so on, but instead I get 01:01:046 or stuff like that.

Is there any way to use a "snap to grid" option for recording into Sonar? Or does it have to do with the latency of my sound card? Or can I send a synchronisation signal or something like that?

I have an AMD Athlon 750 Mhz and a SoundBlaster 128 PCI.
 
C'mon guys, has none of you ever recorded midi with Sonar?
 
Well as you probably know there is definitely a "snap-to-grid" feature after the fact, i.e. select all the notes and snap them.

But if you're recording midi from an external source, and using the external clock, it should theoretically be perfect. I do not know if, in that particular situation, if there's a way to auto-correct timing while you record.
 
THat hint about the external clock was quite helpful, thanks! At least it has helped me to get closer to what I wanted. I have now set the DR-660 as the master device and Sonar to accept sync messages.

However, there are still two minor flaws:

1. Synchronistation is not quite perfect, especially at higher speeds. The notes are not at regular intervals, e.g. I get 1:01:014, 1:02:014, 1:03:016, 1:04:015 or so. Is this a latency issue?

2. I set the now-time to 1:01:000 before I record, but recording does actually start somewhat later, i.e. when recording has finished, the clip is offset by a couple of frames.

Anyone with some synchronisation experience who can help?
 
Try reducing the buffer amount in 'Global Options> MIDI> System Exclusive'.

Otherwise, it's possible the DR-660 just doesn't have a steady MTC clock. I've also found that SoundBastard cards aren't always that great for MIDI implementation.
 
I'm scratching fuzzy memory here, since it's been a while since I've done things with external clocks. But when using an external midi clock, I believe Sonar will "chase" lock to it, meaning it needs a bar or two to get beginning sync. This is normal, you might adjust your song as necessary to have enough bars of dead air in the beginning.

Re: your #1 question, still baffling to me, haven't seen this ever. Norbert's tips may be the key, experiment push/pull and you will probably run across the bit to flip.
 
Thanks Norbert, that helps! I had to reduce the buffer size dramatically from 64 to 2, and now all notes are at correct intervals, even at speeds up to 190 bpm. As you seem to have an idea about this stuff, can you briefly explain what this system exlusive buffer thing actually means? If not, never mind, main thing it works now!

The thing I did not quite get is the "chase lock" stuff. My recording is still offset, the only solution I got is to shift everything manually - which is no problem actually, but I wonder if there is a way to synchronise Sonar and the DR-660 even better, so the problem does not occur. What did you mean by "using dead air"? Should I have my projects start at 2:01:000 and start recording at that time? But then everything will still be offset.
 
There's also the MIDI "playback preroll" ( or somthing like that) in the same panel I pointed you to earlier. Maybe that will change the offset. I'm not sure. There might also be a playback offset setting you can change somwhere. Try doing a search of the help file. I know that Cubase has a setting like this. I'm new to Sonar, and haven't even finished reading the manual.

The 'buffer' setting was just an educated guess, on my part. Glad it worked for you! I think buffers like that are similar to hard disc cache. It lets some of the info build up in memory before it starts using it. Keeps a steady flow going to the program, while the buffer is being continuously filled. I really don't think this SHOULD be causing timing variances in Sonar. (?)
 
Aaaaarrgh! I got some good and some bad news. Here´s the good one first:

I found the solution to my 'offset' problem: There was nothing wrong about Sonar or any other setting, the problem simply was that my drum pattern from the DR-660 did not play exactly from the beginning, so that playback from the DR-660 started somewhere inbetween two notes, thus creating a note event not before some time after 1:01:000 - I could have noticed that earlier...

The bad news is, that the buffer thing apparently was a coincidence. More precisely, the intervals are all regular, exact for the first measure. this means that

the note at 1:01:000 plays at 1:01:000 ( which is correct ),
the note at 2:01:000 plays at 1:04:919 ( which sucks ),
the note at 3:01:000 plays at 2:04:919 ( which still sucks )

and so on. In other words, everything from measure 2 on is offset downwards. From the manual of my DR-660 I have learned that it has a resolution of 96 ticks per quarter note. Can this be a hardware problem? I got a crappy sound card also, I guess. May I ask you what sound cards you are using?
 
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