Small Form Factor DAW?

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Eleanor Fudd

Eleanor Fudd

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What do you think of the idea? I've heard that SSF can be noisy, have only one drive tray, and other flaws, but a lot of SFF Dells, for example, have been good business machines.
Are they acceptable as DAWs if quick enough? Thank you.
 
SFF PCs can be very capable for DAW duty, unless you're planning on running mass quantities of tracks with as many (or more) plugins. Like 100+. The average home recordist shouldn't have a problem with a nicely configured SFF PC.

SFF PCs may or not be noisy. Depends on their cooling system. Could have a small fan which would be fairly quiet. Could have a large(r) fan which would be noisier - maybe too much. Maybe it could have multiple fans which would create more noise. Then it may not have fans at all as it's using heat sinks to draw off the heat - no moving parts to make noise. This SFF could be compared to a laptop with a single, small fan and no CD/DVD drives.

When I was shopping for a new Win 11 Desktop to replace my Win 10, I looked at SFF units and, after comparing them with MINI PCs, it didn't make sense to buy a SFF over a MINI. My case was easier because I no longer use CD/DVD media, so I don't miss the drives. Plus I can always buy an external CD/DVD USB Drive for cheap should I require one. I did, however, need to add a powered USB hub to expand the MINI's ports.

My Win 11 MINI desktop has 12GB Ram and a 500GB internal SSD. My old Win 10 has 8GB Ram and a 1TB HDD. The MINI blows the old Win 10 away - much faster DAW operation (as well as non-DAW operations), but I believe that's mainly due to the SSD over the HDD access times. . not the actual Ram or storage sizes.

Well, I'm just throwing in with some general info on the subject. I'm sure some others here can expound on this.
 
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How small are you thinking? You can run a DAW on a Mini PC, as long as it has enough RAM and SSD space. Having adequate cooling would probably be a good idea. The Mini PCs generally use laptop processors which require less power and run cooler, but often at slower base speeds. Small desktops from Dell can be tweaked to increase RAM if needed, and swap to SSDs.

There are a ton of 6th and 7th gen I5 and I7 processor based computers available cheaply because they don't adhere to the Win 11 requirements. If you stick with Win 10 and don't roam online, they would work just fine for a DAW. My DAW/Video editing computer is a 4th Gen I5 with 12GB and SSD + a 2TB hard drive. Works just fine.
 
Thanks very much for those replies. They are excellent and helpful. I ask this: do you use external drives at all now? I will have a 1T. SSD (i7-6700 (3.4GHz) - 32GB) tomorrow, extensions or not, connected (when necessary) by cable, not wi-fi, W10.
 
I have a few 4TB USB drives that I use for backup purposes (I keep HD movies on USB drives to play on my TVs) The 2TB data drive isn't half full even with audio and video projects. A TB of audio data is a LOT! 8 hours of 16 channel audio at 96kHz/24bit is about 130GB. That about 60 hours of 16 channel recording for a 1TB drive. A 4TB USB drive is a little over $100. That's CHEAP!!!!


In comparison, a 2500 ft 10 1/2" reel of 1/2" tape at 15ips is about 30 minutes and costs over $100.
 
I have a 16GB thumb drive and a 500GB SSD connected via USB hub. These are not currently being used with my DAW, just regular storage. The 500GB SSD was added with the intention of adding the Toon Tracks SD3 Drum package at some future date. That contains around 230GB of drum samples. I believe there are several people here using external SSDs to store large sample files, they might chime in here and tell you more about that.
 
But wait !! We haven't gotten to the solid platinum cables that allow faster than light data transfer, uh . . on alternate Thursdays.
 
I don't store data on the computer. It all goes on an external drive, and is backed up on another external drive.
 
Power/performance wise, there's no reason an SFF computer shouldn't do the job.
As with any other computer, just be aware of the spec, CPU model number and quantity of ram.
Don't fall in to the "oh, it's i5..that must be good" trap. Be sure of the model number of the CPU and find out where it lies on benchmark charts.

The problems, usually, with small form factor is upgradability. Usually there's no place, or headers, for additional fans,
and no additional PCI-Express slots.
Depending on the model the same may be true for additional internal storage, and memory may be maxed out from the factory.

GPU, if discrete, is going to be low profile so that makes upgrading fairly limited.

These may not be a problem for you but It's good to be aware of these limitations before buying.

Also be aware that sometimes the CPU and case fans aren't detected by common fan control software.
Some manufacturers have their own control software and that's fine. Others don't.
For me that would be worth a google in advance, just to make sure you can set a custom speed curve if needed.

Acer, for example, have their own software but on many models it doesn't let you set a custom speed of below 60%
so it is, more or less, useless.


Cooling is where these machines really fall flat but, and it's a big but, usually home recording isn't putting huge stress on the computer.
Ok, it's possible to use very intense virtual instrument suites or plugins, so take your own workload in to account,
but mostly home recording isn't particularly heavy.
It's usually nowhere close to video editing or gaming, for example.

If you've got fairly modest recording workflow and don't intend to do other heavier tasks, like gaming, video production, etc,
then a 7th/8th gen or younger machine could be just fine.
 
I went to the shop, & there is a hundred dollars difference between a couple of used units:

1.] Dell OptiPlex 7070 Mini Tower Business Desktops, Intel Core i5-9500 [6 cores - Multi-thread Rating 9822, Single Thread Rating 2574] 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB SSD, WIFI 6/BT 5.2 (AX 1800) with Antenna, Windows 11 Pro, Wi-Fi + Bluetooth
===
2.] Dell Optiplex 5050 SFF Business Desktop - Intel Core i7-6700 (3.4GHz) [4 cores, Multithread rating 8075, Single thread Rating 2289,]- 32GB, 1TB SSD - Intel HD Graphics - Windows 10 Professional (EN/FR) 1 Year Warranty (Renewed) Wi-Fi via USB dongle.

So they are similar, except #1 has a newer CPU, which is 18% faster for multi-threading, and is 11% faster for single thread rating; and the internet connections are not the same, nor the operating systems. I will not use the computer for internet, except to download necessary things, and will then connect with a cable, not wi-fi. It seems to me that speed differences in that range would not be a big deal for a DAW. It's a newer chip, but are 11-to-18 percent differences important? Is Win 11 a problem?
Thanks for any feedback on that.
 
The I5-9500 is one of the accepted CPUs for WIn 11. The 6700 is not. Win 10 will lose updates in October of 2025, so if that matters to you (like if you get on the internet) then the I5 would be better choice.

As I said, I'm running an I5-4750 with Reaper and doing both video and audio editing. The I5 would be plenty for most DAW work.
 
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I agree with this.
Personally I'd pay the hundred bucks for a machine that's four years younger, has built in Wifi, and shouldn't have issues going to windows 11,
but those things may not matter to you.
The performance differences between the two machines is, in my opinion, negligible.

The only other thing I'd want to check is that the software you run is happy with Intel integrated graphics,
but that's mostly because I'm just not particularly familiar with running integrated graphics. It's most likely a non issue.
 
From personal experience, if Wi-Fi and/or BT are of any concern, Wi-Fi worked very well on my Win 10 system, but BT sucked big time - virtually non-existent. They both work very well on my Win 11 units. Could be it was just my specific system, but I've read many other posts in other forums complaining about Win 10's BT operation.
 
Hope I can post on here, didn't want to start a new thread.
I'm looking to buy a PC to purely run Reaper on (nothing else, as I have a work laptop for that). Used PCs seem to be really cheap now and I was looking at a refurbished Dell with 8GB RAM, Intel core i5 for £70 - £100. I want to run Win 11 just for ongoing support/securtiy patches i.e. somewhat future proof.

However, the first one I saw on Amazon (and read the reviews) said that although it has Win 11 installed and it works, they keep getting the pop-up message to say that the minimum spec has not been met for Win 11. Is this anything to worry about? I can handle the odd pop-up every time it boots up, but obviously I don't want to buy something that will have recurring problems.

Any advice or suggestions please? I am a noob at the moment so don't want to spend more than is necessary for something I'll just be using once or twice at a weekend
 
GuitarGrater said:
Hope I can post on here, didn't want to start a new thread.
I'm looking to buy a PC to purely run Reaper on (nothing else, as I have a work laptop for that).

Any advice or suggestions please? I am a noob at the moment so don't want to spend more than is necessary for something I'll just be using once or twice at a weekend
Click to expand...
Mac Mini - blast of power in a small box - they are exceptional and will do the work you want and more.
 
The odd pop up saying the computer doesn't meet the spec required might work now, but the next update might break it. I have an old G5 mac, which is really good and it's been tricked into using the latest operating system, but I was warned NOT to click on update as it would break the 'fix'.

I've been steadily converting to macs, but now run both - cubase 14 on a mac mini and also a pretty whiz pc - I have two studios - one at home and one at the office. They are different, but not really better. The video editing is on the pc and the main audio on the mac, but of course I swap. Macs are user friendly - the tend to do things for you, while windows expects you to ask then do yourself?
 
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G-GRATER,

You can buy a used machine and stay on Windows 10. There are oodles of computers with 6th or 7th Gen I7 processor and 16GB ram. If you insist on Win 11, you need to be 8th generation or later processor. to have the proper TPM2.0, Secure Boot and other hardware security features. An 8th or 9th Gen I5 would run fine but vendors know that Win 11 capable machines will bring a premium, so prices will be higher.

If you're just running Reaper, then there's no need to be online except for occasional transfer of files. That can be done without the internet and even if you do hop on to access a Dropbox or Google drive for a file, the likelyhood of you getting attacked will be miniscule. It's not like the computer won't work anymore. Make sure you have an SSD, 500GB minimum, and maybe a 2TB hard drive for data storage. You can run for years with that. RAM is cheap so if you get one with 8GB, you can always add 16 more for a cheap price if the system will take it. Maybe $20 for RAM.

I have a 2nd Gen I3 that is running Win 11, but it's just for a fun test. I'm on 24H2, but have set updates by my choice. If MS decides to kill off unapproved hardware, I'll simply stop doing any updates. It's not a computer I rely on, just an old one that I toy around with for stuff like that. I stuck a $40 SSD in it and it runs great, especially for a 14 year old computer. My 10 yr old DAW computer is on Win 10, and will probably stay there. I have two other computers that are 11 approved.

Just looking at Amazon in the US, for $257 I can get a Dell tower, I7-6700 with 32GB ram, 1TB NVMe SSD and 2TB hard drive and Windows 10 pro. That would be a killer machine. I'm guessing you'll find similar in the EU.
 
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