Sidechain send/return application

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OK ... just a quick question, this is the forum for it ... so:

what application is Sidechain send/return used for ...

what I mean is I know I´ll send a copy (aux) of my kick to the side-chain in on my compressor to have the compressor, compress when the kick hits thus giving me a rhythmic effect .. (right?)

so where am I returning the signal??

is send/return used to pass the signal through the compressor without using an aux send .. or something else?

Thx!
 
You use the side chain insert when you want something other than the signal being compressed to trigger the compression. Ducking and de-essing are examples. For ducking you feed a completely different signal to the side chain, like a voice over background music. That's common for radio DJs. For de-essing you insert an eq on the side chain and emphasize the frequencies where there is too much sibilance, say 4-8kHz, so the compressor attenuates the sibilance but not the rest of the signal so much.
 
Never mind. I was the victim of doing too much vocal editing in the last few days. My brain wasn't working at all. Move along, nothing to see here.
 
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Farview said:
Yes, they are giving you a 'thru' so that you can send something to the sidechain without it being a dead end. (having to waste an aux send)

I've used these live for gates on drums. I worked with a band that both mic'd and triggered the drums. So I used the signal from the trigger (through the sidechain) to open the gates on the mics. I used the thru on the gate (the return) to send the trigger signal to the sound module. No need for patchbays, Y cables or any other sillyness because of that nifty little output.
Click to expand...

Except that a compressor's side chain return is after its send. It's an insert on the path going to the detector circuit, as in send out then return back into the unit, just like an insert on a mixer channel. The thru you're describing must be something different than a side chain return. I can see how an in/thru would be handy on a gate, but I don't think that's what the OP is asking about.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Except that a compressor's side chain return is after its send. It's an insert on the path going to the detector circuit, as in send out then return back into the unit, just like an insert on a mixer channel. The thru you're describing must be something different than a side chain return. I can see how an in/thru would be handy on a gate, but I don't think that's what the OP is asking about.
Click to expand...
You're right. Like those DBX's all have the side chain insert. That's for inserting an EQ in the sidechain. If you were going to trigger the compressor from another signal completely, you would only use the return.
 
Hey fellas,
thanks for the replies = great site!!
yes I was asking if side chain send return acted as a ''through''
... I guess I´m a bit confused right now as I think I discovered that there are two types of side chain..

I have a side chain on my rane DC24 ring is send and tip is return... and I´m guessing its as Farview called it = it acts as a through so you don´t have a dead end in the audio path..

but on my DBX 166A the side chain is labeled as side chain insert !! and it acts differently...the dbx manual states it kills the compressors INPUT ?? ring being send tip being return ... so I guess you´d only need to hook up the insert and not the in or out but you have no side chain?? ..

so I am I guess right in that; side chains come in two flavors:

side chain send/return = through ...
and
side chain insert = send and return = in/out Y stereo cable .. no side chain avalible ...(insert kills the compressor input

but if a mono cableis used = standard side chain but the sidechain audio path is a dead end ...

can this assumption really be correct ?...
 
new phase said:
Hey fellas,
thanks for the replies = great site!!
yes I was asking if side chain send return acted as a ''through''
... I guess I´m a bit confused right now as I think I discovered that there are two types of side chain..

I have a side chain on my rane DC24 ring is send and tip is return... and I´m guessing its as Farview called it = it acts as a through so you don´t have a dead end in the audio path..

but on my DBX 166A the side chain is labeled as side chain insert !! and it acts differently...the dbx manual states it kills the compressors INPUT ?? ring being send tip being return ... so I guess you´d only need to hook up the insert and not the in or out but you have no side chain?? ..

so I am I guess right in that; side chains come in two flavors:

side chain send/return = through ...
and
side chain insert = send and return = in/out Y stereo cable .. no side chain avalible ...(insert kills the compressor input

but if a mono cableis used = standard side chain but the sidechain audio path is a dead end ...

can this assumption really be correct ?...
Click to expand...

Nope, on the 166a the side chain insert is like an insert on a mixer, it allows you to process or replace the side chain (the signal going to the detector circuit). If you use an insert cable you can hook up an eq etc. Because the tip is return you can use a standard TS patch cable to replace the side chain signal entirely, not the signal being processed. That's why it's labeled send/return rather than in/thru or something. The send is ahead of the return in the signal path, and they are normalled in the jack. If they wanted to save you the trouble of using a Y-cable to feed signal through the unit they would have provided separate jacks. For a comparison, the earlier 166 (no a) had only a side chain input, so you had to use a splitter or an aux output to get signal to it.
 
While we're on the 166A, does the audio source fed into the compressor also get fed into the sidechain eq?
 
Okok .. so let me just try to get this for the last time, as I´m most likely missing something very simple here:

first:

Yes, they are giving you a 'thru' so that you can send something to the sidechain without it being a dead end. (having to waste an aux send)
Click to expand...

this is correct yeah ...

second:

on the 166a the side chain insert is like an insert on a mixer, it allows you to process or replace the side chain (the signal going to the detector circuit). If you use an insert cable you can hook up an eq etc
Click to expand...

then what is the difference/benefits between a side chain and a side chain insert?

one is designed to use with patch-bays the other auxiliaries ?
 
new phase said:
Hey fellas,
thanks for the replies = great site!!
yes I was asking if side chain send return acted as a ''through''
... I guess I´m a bit confused right now as I think I discovered that there are two types of side chain..

I have a side chain on my rane DC24 ring is send and tip is return... and I´m guessing its as Farview called it = it acts as a through so you don´t have a dead end in the audio path..
Click to expand...
Nope. I screwed up. It works just like an insert on a mixer.

new phase said:
but on my DBX 166A the side chain is labeled as side chain insert !! and it acts differently...the dbx manual states it kills the compressors INPUT ?? ring being send tip being return ... so I guess you´d only need to hook up the insert and not the in or out but you have no side chain?? ..
Click to expand...
It kills the compressors input in the detector path, not the audio path. Normally, the compressors input is split with one part going to the compressor and the other part going to the detector. The detector is the thing that measures the signal level. What goes to the detector is what triggers the compressor. The insert is in the detector path.
If you use an insert cable, you can insert an EQ to make the compressor respond to certain frequencies more than others. It sends the input signal to the EQ and returns from the EQ and goes to the detector.

Now, if you just use a TS cable and plug it into the insert, the input signal won't get to the detector at all, but what ever signal you have coming down that TS cable will.
 
new phase said:
Okok .. so let me just try to get this for the last time, as I´m most likely missing something very simple here:
Click to expand...
The thing you are missing was that I was completely and totally wrong.

new phase said:
then what is the difference/benefits between a side chain and a side chain insert?
Click to expand...
Nothing, different companies call it different things.
 
thanks so much for the replies very informative and helpful !! this site/you guys rock!!
 
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