show me the money!!!

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gullyjewelz

gullyjewelz

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who is making money off of their song writing skills?

any one with some advice on how to do that?

anyone with ideas on contacting appropriate agents who can work with us as songwriterS?
 
I have a few hundred bucks come in each year - not enough to pay the rent, but it does allow me to purchase a new piece of gear here & there.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'll offer what I've found to be true for me.

1. Assess you ability - are you absolutely positive that your material is good enough? If not, work on that before even thinking about making money. Candidly, art should be created for the joy, financial reward is simply a nice little bonus.

2. Determine where your real writing strengh is (pop, country, jingles, etc) and work toward your strength. Few people are really good at writing in numerous genres.

3. Prepare high quality demos - pay for the best talent you can afford, in particular the vocalist (the vocals, always sell the song). I and other writers I know, work part time jobs, in addtion to full time jobs, to afford making demos.

4. Determine which publishers focus on your genre of music. There are numerous trade magazines, books and organizations that can provide this information (but you may have to spend some cash to track down leads).

5. Contact any lead before sending in unsolicited material - be professional and make sure if you submit something it looks and sounds as good a possible.

Regarding agents. While it is possible to hire an agent or manager, most "reputable" agents/managers only take on people with some kind of track record. Some writers are able to find an attorney who's specialty is entertainment law (the attorneys often know artists, manager, producers, etc. etc) however, in most cases you need a track record. You don't want to hire someone who does not have real contacts - and the people who do have real contacts don't want to waste time on wannabes.

I think for most writers, finding a publisher is still the best route, but you need quality material, a prefessional attitude, a good work ethic and the ability to accept rejection. I know many people don't think highly of groups like Taxi, but I know 2 people (3 if I cound myself) who have made enough through Taxi that the membership fees have beed paid for many times over.

However, keep in mind, that gettin a song published is only the first step. Once a song is in a publishing catalog, it must be selected to be recorded. The recording and/or printed material then must generate some revenue. This is all a long shot at best.

I and others I know have spent plenty of cash on demos which never went any where. But like any business venture, you have to spend money, to make money.
 
You mention pop, country, and jingles.

What if your strength is rock?
 
So many rock groups/artists are "self contained" meaning they write thier own material. It is harder to get a rock song placed - but not impossible.

More country artists, and many of the "pop" artists (the chick singers, boy bands, etc)look for outside material - naturally this means writers must write in that genre.

I tend to write more in a rock genre (I simply can't write in the pop genre) - so I focused most of my energy on writing country material (which candidly is more rock than country ie: "new country").
 
Also, rock is the new pop nowadays. You hear the pop artists coming out with much edgier sounds, like Avril Lavigne and Kelly Clarkson. So there might be opening rock-writing opportunities there.
 
listen to mikeh... that's all great advice.

IMO, the biggest hurdle for aspiring songwriters to get over is the belief that can write whatever kinds of songs they want and publishers will be interested in them. The music business is a music business, and like any other business you have to sell what people are demanding. If everyone is buying red widgets, but you want to only sell blue widgets because you think they are prettier, then you're going to be out of the widget business before too long.

For songwriters, that means your greatest chance for success lies in 3.5 minute country, pop, or R&B songs in standard forms, with short intros, no solos, conversational lyrics, etc etc etc...

If you think that writing those kinds of songs diminishes your art, that's perfectly fine, but you have to realize you are reducing your chances of success as a songwriter by about 99.9%.

A
 
mikeh said:
3. Prepare high quality demos - pay for the best talent you can afford, in particular the vocalist (the vocals, always sell the song). I and other writers I know, work part time jobs, in addtion to full time jobs, to afford making demos.
.

I thought this thread was real interesting. Particularly, "the vocals sell the song". Is this true because the lyrics are the most important?

What if your strength is in writing lyrics and not so much the progressions arrangements and producing behind them? How would one's approach be different if that is the case?

Curious...

Johnathon
 
Johnathon said:
Is this true because the lyrics are the most important?

No. It's because producers don't have the time to imagine what your song could sound like someday if it were performed by pro level artists and well-produced. You have to let them hear it that way NOW. Your demo is in a pile of 100 other demos that are all sung by top vocalists. If a publisher puts yours on and it sounds like your sister did it in your basement, you have no chance (unless your sister is Shania Twain and your did it in Mutt Lang's basement!)

Lyrics, on the other hand, are of supreme importance in the songwriting industry. So much so that I couldn't even begin to cover the scope in a single post. There are lots of great books available, like Writing Better Lyrics by Pat Pattison. There's also this one. ;)

If your strength is lyrics and not arranging, you should find a co-writer with the opposite skill-set, and work on your arranging skills in the meantime. It's a fun, never ending challenge to become a better songwriter.

A
 
Well, I am a singer songwriter that makes money off of my skill. I can't claim wild success just yet, but I haven't been actively touring in ten years and have only recently started back up and have begun to do it for a living again. I can give some advice that you can take or leave if you want to do this as a living.

Be Honest With Yourself
Most songwriters suck. Really. Most people can't master the skill set required. Honestly compare your work to the work of those that inspire(d) you. Are you at or near that level? Can you get there? If not stop now and invest your money in a business degree. Do people that you don't know and have no connection to you constantly tell you that your songs are great? Do people come up wanting to buy things from you at gigs (like CD's and T-shirts) without being told that you have those items? Do other songwriters who you respect like to listen to your songs? Are they bullshitting you? Do people seek you out to perform?

Sit down and honestly assess whether or not you have the goods not just based on your own belief in yourself but in objective criteria.

Pick A Genre That You Are Good At
If people love your stuff and ask you back and throw money at you because you write country drinking songs and you decide to write pop songs expect different results. This isn't to say that you can't be versatile or blur lines --you can and should-- but do what you are good at and comes easiest to you, not just what you think the market requires. Realize that to do this you may sacrifice your shot at the big time by staying in the more obscure genre's (jazz, blues, folk, instrumental, etc...)

Throw out your TV
Get rid of it. Start reading. The TV requires passive participation and is a huge time waster. It rarely inspires or causes one to think and mull things over. Reading, on the other hand, is very fertile grist for the mill because it requires one to actively participate. If you leave the TV on for background noise turn it off and turn on music. Because we actively interpret the emotional reaction to a pieve of music it can often inspire us in a manner that the passive pumping of TV cannot.

Write Every Day
The more you write the easier it is. If you want it to be a job then approach it as a job (just a job that you happen to love.) --You DO love it don't you?-- Write seven days a week about something. Find something. You're not inspired? Get inspired, make inspiration happen. Pick a topic, a subject, a theme, and then write about it. Don't know enough or aren't feeling it? Go read more about it. Look at art and photographs about the subject. These won't all be good, but don't throw 'em away. Keep 'em all and review 'em. You'll find that some that you thought were great when you wrote them positively suck a few months later and some that sucked can be salvaged. Don't get married to the song, look for lines, phrases or ideas from bad songs that are diamonds in the rough.

Forget Inspiration
Jobs aren't supposed to be easy. If you only write when you are inspired then you will have a pretty thin songbook. Either you can write songs or you can't. If you can then do, even when you aren't white hot and burning as you scribble lines furiously across the page. Inspiration is nice when it happens but it is still temporary. You are going to have to make decisions about songs that you were inspired to write that you aren't inspired to arrange, so why not vice versa? If you're a writer then write.

Practice, practice, practice
Your instrument. You don't play one? Why not? OK. You can become a successful songwriter by not playing anything as long as you team up with someone, but this is a business of razor thin margins down here in the trenches why are you giving half of it away instead of learning the seven to nine chords that it would take to rough in almost any song?

Play in front of people
If you already play an instrument get out there and start playing in front of people. You can't sing? So what? Neither can Bob Dylan. Unless you are attrocious and can't stay on pitch then get out there. If you are attrocious then find a side man (or woman) to handle vocals. The point is to get out there and get honest feedback about how good your songs are and to supplement your income. If you live in a music center city then this alone may generate enough buzz over time for you to transition from a weekend musician to a working one. At the very least it allows you to start networking with other musicians and songsmith's who are more inclined to give you honest feedback than the drunk guy in the Dead Kennedy's T-Shirt.

Don't Give Up
If you honestly believe that you have what it takes and that belief has been substantiated then don't give up. Committ. Start actively persuing your dream of working in the music business by working at the music business, gradually fade out all non music jobs while fading in all music jobs. Be diverse. Apply for government grants, look at arts councils, enter songwriting competitions, attend and play in festivals, work at radio stations if you can, do roadie work if you can get it. At some point you will reach a breaking point where you must decide to jump in and give it a go or remain an amateur. If you have what it takes jump in with both feet, cut the ties to the day job and start selling yourself ferociously. Gig, write, sell, create then gig some more. Play everyplace they won't arrest you for it, talk to everyone who might remotely be able to help you, then do it all over again.

Believe in Yourself
I believe I am a fantastic songwriter with unlimited potential given the right stars alligning. There is a possibility that I will labor in obscurity for 35 years while doing nothing more than keeping the kids fed, the mortgage paid, and the car running. I'm OK with that. It will not affect my belief that I am a fantastic songwriter. If you don't think you are great deep down in your soul then get great. If you are great, don't ever stop believing it whether or not you are selling 50,000 CD's a week at Wal-Mart or 50 a week out of the trunk of your car.

Forget Getting An Agent
Tom May of NPR's River City Folk told me that for most newcomers and obscure genre artists an agent will not even sniff you unless you are making in excess of $200 a gig and are gigging twenty times a month. It just isn't worth it to them. It's not worth it to you unless you are pulling in $2,000 a gig and playing 10 gigs a month. Are you making 20K a month? No? Then start handling your own press, promotion, and booking. You'll get more work and more money that way. Get a press kit together, start doing your research, and start aggresively selling yourself.


That's all I got for now.
 
GoldFalcon said:
Blah Blah Blah Blah

That's all I got for now.

I summarized :) to keep the thread short, but all that is really great advice. My one addition: practice singing. Many people don't, many believe you're good or you're not. Practice practice practice. It helps tons.

Very good advice, Gold.
 
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