Should I Rent?

  • Thread starter Thread starter astoebe
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astoebe

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I am producing a CD for our church this summer, some original stuff, some stuff songs we do that we'll get licenses for. We have mics available like, Shure SM81's, sm57's, sm58's, MXL 603's, MXL 990's, SP C1's, MXL V67g, ADK Hamburg, and I think that's pretty much it (minus a few drum mics). We'll be going through an Allen and Heath mixer into a M-Audio 1010. I thought about tracking everything, then renting a really nice preamp and mic for a week and redoing the vocals (something like avalon preamp, neumann mic). My question is, is this worth doing? Will I be able to tell a tremendous difference seeing as how everything else will be tracked with the above equipment? If it is worth it, should I just get a pre-amp and use my mics or should I get both? I would really like to hear from people who have experience with both types of equipment, or anyone who has done this if you have the time to answer. Thanks alot!
 
If it were me, I'd try to get the best vocal I can with the equipment I have to save the money for the Lord's work, such as buying the preacher-man a long black American car.
 
ez_willis said:
If it were me, I'd try to get the best vocal I can with the equipment I have to save the money for the Lord's work, such as buying the preacher-man a long black American car.
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HAHAHAHAHAAAA

that's so wrong.....but funny!
 
astoebe said:
I am producing a CD for our church this summer, some original stuff, some stuff songs we do that we'll get licenses for. We have mics available like, Shure SM81's, sm57's, sm58's, MXL 603's, MXL 990's, SP C1's, MXL V67g, ADK Hamburg, and I think that's pretty much it (minus a few drum mics). We'll be going through an Allen and Heath mixer into a M-Audio 1010. I thought about tracking everything, then renting a really nice preamp and mic for a week and redoing the vocals (something like avalon preamp, neumann mic). My question is, is this worth doing? Will I be able to tell a tremendous difference seeing as how everything else will be tracked with the above equipment? If it is worth it, should I just get a pre-amp and use my mics or should I get both? I would really like to hear from people who have experience with both types of equipment, or anyone who has done this if you have the time to answer. Thanks alot!
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Maybe but only if the original vocal is falling short for some reason. After all, the song and performance is the key. The pre ain't squat.
 
mixsit said:
After all, the song and performance is the key. The pre ain't squat.
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I was under the impression that as far as stuff sitting in a mix the pre was most important?
 
Renting a good preamp and mic can make a huge difference. I would go for it so long as they have properly budgeted for this type of expense. If however it is going to be weird or difficult to get the money to do it, try what you have first. The preamp/mic combo will make the most difference on the lead vocal, so try and just rent it for that to keep budget down.
 
Why?

Why should he rent a pre?

Give me one good reason why he shouldn't try to use the equipment he has? Perhaps the person that will be singing into this pre sounds like alfalfa? A good mic-pre isn't going to make a pubescent boy sound like Barry White.

Try to get a good vocal track with what you have. If you can't because of the mic-pre, rent one.

Remember folks, this is Gods money we're spending here.
 
ez_willis said:
Give me one good reason why he shouldn't try to use the equipment he has? Perhaps the person that will be singing into this pre sounds like alfalfa? A good mic-pre isn't going to make a pubescent boy sound like Barry White.

Try to get a good vocal track with what you have. If you can't because of the mic-pre, rent one.
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The vocal talent will be good, we are a church of about 1600. I know that I can get a good sound, but I want to do as professional a job as possible, and I would like to know how much a pre and mic for the vocals would help me. What kind of equipment do you have exerience with? I am having a hard time telling if you are being sarcastic or really don't think it would help me that much...
 
xstatic said:
Renting a good preamp and mic can make a huge difference. I would go for it so long as they have properly budgeted for this type of expense. If however it is going to be weird or difficult to get the money to do it, try what you have first. The preamp/mic combo will make the most difference on the lead vocal, so try and just rent it for that to keep budget down.
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I was thinking that I'd do the main vocals first, and then whatever other vocals I could redo before I needed to return the equipment...thanks for the input
 
astoebe said:
I am having a hard time telling if you are being sarcastic or really don't think it would help me that much...
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Yeah, that seems to be a running theme in my life, sorry.

Is the person doing the vocals going to available for more than one session? If she/he is, why not try using the equipment you have?
 
If you can't get a good a sound with what you have, then, if anything, you should think about using that money to hire an outside/freelance engineer who can.

.
 
chessrock said:
If you can't get a good a sound with what you have, then, if anything, you should think about using that money to hire an outside/freelance engineer who can.

.
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I CAN GET A GOOD SOUND WITH WHAT I HAVE!...geez louise I've said this already, I just have never used top of the line preamps and mics (well I've used them but as the person playing the instrument, not the producer) and I want to know how much of a difference it will make from people who use this stuff on a regular basis

ez_willis said:
Is the person doing the vocals going to available for more than one session? If she/he is, why not try using the equipment you have?
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Yeah, there will be different vocalists for different songs, and they will all be available throughout the process. So you think that I could get pretty similar results just working with what I have? I may just end up doing that, especially since I'll be tracking everything else with what I have....thanks for your help
 
If you can get a good sound with what you have, there is certainly a good chance that you can get a better sound with better mics and pre's. Often times things sound good to us until we hear them sound better. At that point it can be hard to listen to the old way. Should you rent? Maybe. That really is a decision for you to make. So far budget is the only compelling reason that I have heard to not rent in this thread.
 
wow, some of you guys are really snotty.... hes asking a legitimate question.

sure he can get a GOOD sound with what he has, but why settle for mediocrity??

he simply wants to know if the SOUND quality of the vocal track(s) will be any better with -better- rented stuff, AND (most importantly i think) if the difference would even be worth the $$.

whats wrong with asking that??

I wish i knew dude, cuz i would tell ya.... i wouldnt string you along with a smartass attitude, all the while avoiding the actual question..... like some people..
 
Will the vocals sound different with rented mics and pres. Almost certainly they will.

Will they sound better with rented mics and pres? That totally depends upon the nature of the vocals, the nature of the room, the nature of the specific mic model, the nature of the specific preamp model, and the nature of the mic/preamp pairing, and finally on the engineer's mental definition of "better".

In other words, unless one has already expirimented with certain mic/pre combinations with that vocalist in that room, there is no way to tell which combo will both sound better and sound better enough to be "worth it" until one tries it.

A better preamp is almost always a dead lock "worth it" if one is working with run-of-the-mill preamps now. However, the matching of the microphone to the voice as well as to the preamp is a bit more of a black art than that. The "wrong" (bad word) mic for the voice or a less-than-ideal match of mic to preamp can render the improvenemts in preamp alone moot.

Astoebe, is it possible to get superior results that are "worth it" by renting the right mic/pre combo for that recording situation. Yes, it is entirely possible, even probable if one knows what to select. Is it likely that you can select one single model of mic and pre combo before-hand based upon reputation and spec alone that will sound better enough to make it "worth it"? At best, it's a 50-50 gamble.

The real question, I think, is how much budget can you afford to experiment? Because that's the only way you'll get a solid answer. If you don't have that kind of discressionary budget and can get decent recordings with what you have, then stay where you're at.Otherwise, rent a couple of mics and a couple of preamps, try the four possible combinations and see how it comes out.

G.
 
The original post mentioned an Avalon/Neumann combo as a rental. I personally am not the hugest Avalon fan, but the 737 sure does sound pretty damned good with a U87 or TLM103.
 
astoebe said:
I was under the impression that as far as stuff sitting in a mix the pre was most important?
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Yes that's fine and true. The problem is knowing (on this end) if other more important things are up to par. That's all I meant by that.
Looks to me like Glen' put things in their proper perspective it pretty well. :)
Wayne
 
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