Share your experiences/knowledge with recording trade school and university.

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Spaceboy_93

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I realize this is a frequently talked about topic on message boards, but through searching I wasn't able to find information I didn't already understand.

First of all, I already realize the risks and dismal market in the recording industry, so there's no need to warn or dissuade me. I'm an adult, not a teenager, and have spent many years considering this field before finally deciding to enter college. I also understand that reputation, connections, and hands-on experience count for far more than a degree, and that is something I'm working on.

I am looking at studying audio engineering with a minor in general business at MTSU near Nashville, TN. I'm currently enrolled in another school in Tennessee, but I chose to skip the current semester because although I was excelling in major-specific classes, I have trouble keeping interested in the general education requirement courses, and wanted to explore other options.

I'm looking for more information on trade schools with AA or BA programs in audio engineering, to effectively skip the general requirements of a traditional university, and to ideally get into an internship program immediately. I have been searching for a couple of days and most trade schools seem to offer "certificates" instead of degrees, or have other problems. I've looked into Full Sail, and between the exorbitant tuition and mixed experiences shared online, it doesn't seem like the place for me. I'm open for any suggestions on schools to look into. If I can't find a trade school, I will continue fulfilling general requirements in university and stay on the current course. I will do whatever I need to do, but I'm curious about what else is out there.

So, who here has experience with trade schools or other alternatives to a traditional university? Who here has any tips or general information for someone in my position?

Thanks.
 
What your going to want to look for is a school that is FULLY up to date with what is going on in the real world of what you want to pursue.
But even then once your out there most everything that you have learned or the equipment that you learned on will be out of date.
Just be sure that they are teaching you for the future and not what someone them self learned 30 years ago and is giving that knowledge in class at your school.
 
OH YEAH! and the most important thing you have to do that no one talks about is the fact that you are going to have to get a union card if your going to go anywhere in the audio business.
Check into that.
 
So, who here has experience with trade schools or other alternatives to a traditional university? Who here has any tips or general information for someone in my position?
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Well, my first reflex would be...
there's no need to warn or dissuade me.
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So much for my first reflex...

A degree in audio engineering means absolutely squat. Every single person I know with a degree in audio engineering over the last two decades (assuming they didn't already work in the industry in the first place), *IF* they're "in the industry" at the moment, are coiling and cleaning cables in a shop every Monday.

On a personal note, on the rare occasion I'm looking for an intern, I can tell you that anything with "Degree in Audio Engineering" are the first to go into the round file. I have too much experience with the "newly experienced" to have the patience to actually teach them to do things the right way (and they're always busy trying to tell me how to do my job).

THAT SAID -- I had an intern that had a degree in acoustical engineering -- Great kid. Had one with a degree in system design and integration -- Another great kid. They minored in audio engineering, so they weren't paying attention as much in class (I guess) which was a really good thing, as they were open to suggestion and didn't start off right away trying to convince me that I could actually cancel the reflection off a wall with an inverted signal (honest - Happened - First day. No to mention the one that assumed one of my best and most experienced clients was 'an idiot' for 'not using all the bits' in his mixdown...).

A "certificate" in audio engineering is just as "effective" as a degree -- Especially if you have a degree in something that's actually useful (like business. Or electronics perhaps - That's a good one. Or acoustical engineering, which can be used anywhere).
 
What field/degree would you suggest to have the best opportunities to forge a career in the music industry?
 
It all depends on what YOU want to do in the industry. Just to specialize in a small nitch of audio is insane you must be well versed across the board.
And university can only teach you so much ... you must take the initiative and learn all you can as an independent study by jumping into the trenches and getting your hands dirty.
 
Within the music and audio world, so much of the business is based on not if you have the degree in hand, but if you have the knowledge. They care more about whether you can do what is asked, than if you went to school. And like moresound said, you need to be very well versed. You need to not just be a jack of all trades, but a master of alot. School can be great as it gives you incentive to study and hands on experience that you may otherwise find hard to get. It does not give you a "great light" to the industry through. It does not even give you a "foot in the door". It just gives you some knowledge.

I know many people who have graduated with audio degrees that wanted to end up working in a studio recording the next hot band, most are doing sound for churches, local news stations, radio and so on. Some have gone on to build their own studies, but they pay for it not by recording CD's, but by doing radio jingles and so on. School can be great but it really comes down to your own personal determination.

I actually am attending school right now for Audio Productions, but I also am a double major in Computer Science. You need to be well versed. I have learned ALOT of knowledge about recording and audio from school, but also I have learned alot from self study, books, trial and error, and this wonderous forum. I hope to work out of college in audio, but understand that I may not and may have to work hard for it and may have to do audio work that is not the "glamorized" work to get there.
 
What about trade schools though? Are 4-year universities the only way to get a degree/education in audio engineering/production?
 
Spaceboy_93 said:
What about trade schools though? Are 4-year universities the only way to get a degree/education in audio engineering/production?
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4-years are not the only way. There are many 2 year "trade school" options like FullSail and IPR. The main difference between a university or a trade school is generals and diversity in your schooling. In a university you do roughly 2 years worth of generals and roughly 2 years worth of major specific courses. You become more diversified as you end up taking more math, business, sociology classes and so on. May sound like more work, but "typically" employers who have two equal candidates will pick the one with the 4 year degree. Not always though, and this is not necassarily correct for the music business.
 
Thanks. What are some trade schools I could do some research into? I've looked into Full Sail, and it's really not for me.
 
Spaceboy_93 said:
Thanks. What are some trade schools I could do some research into? I've looked into Full Sail, and it's really not for me.
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The only other trade school I have first hand experience with is IPR (the Institute of Production and Recording) in Minneapolis, MN. I had a friend go through that program and is now a production assistant here in Fargo, ND for our local news TV station. IPR has a nice setup though and i believe 3 fully functional protools HD studios and then a few listening/midi labs all with LE. I recorded a song with him a few years back there. However, outside of being there a few times and recording, I can't specifically say anything about the program except for what my friend has said.

Is location an issue for you? Do you mind moving? Is there a particular part of the country you prefer? Are you exclusively looking for a 2 year degree or are you open to a 4 year from a college or university?
 
I did a year in a recording program and then heard a radio interview with a big name mixer who had said pretty much the same thing as Massive Master said. He wasn't into hiring "schooled" audio engineers because they already thought they knew too much. So this coupled with other stories of starting out running coffees etc, turned me off and I dropped out. It kinda bugs me now to see that one of the guys I was at school with, has been the engineer on many big name albums though. Oh well :)
 
phriq said:
The only other trade school I have first hand experience with is IPR (the Institute of Production and Recording) in Minneapolis, MN. I had a friend go through that program and is now a production assistant here in Fargo, ND for our local news TV station. IPR has a nice setup though and i believe 3 fully functional protools HD studios and then a few listening/midi labs all with LE. I recorded a song with him a few years back there. However, outside of being there a few times and recording, I can't specifically say anything about the program except for what my friend has said.

Is location an issue for you? Do you mind moving? Is there a particular part of the country you prefer? Are you exclusively looking for a 2 year degree or are you open to a 4 year from a college or university?
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I'm fine with moving to any part of the country, but I'm looking into trade schools as an alternative to 4-year university. I'm currently finishing my first year of college and planning to transfer to MTSU in the fall. I'm just wanting to look into other options for education specific the subjects I'm interested in. It's possible I'm going to apprenticing in another field as well.
 
Spaceboy_93 said:
I'm fine with moving to any part of the country, but I'm looking into trade schools as an alternative to 4-year university. I'm currently finishing my first year of college and planning to transfer to MTSU in the fall. I'm just wanting to look into other options for education specific the subjects I'm interested in. It's possible I'm going to apprenticing in another field as well.
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MTSU? Well, good luck with whatever option you choose!
 
My formal education is in areas other than sound recording/etc., so I can add little of any knowledge to that part of your discussion. I would like to comment on the more general or philosophical aspects of a post-secondary education your post brings up.

The large majority of education-driven (rather than profit-driven) educational institutions continue to focus on a "liberal education." This phrase has nothing to do with one's political ideas, but rather the concept that an institute of higher education has a responsibility to give you the opportunity to be a better person, not just a better educated one. That is why you see "general education" courses, and/or courses that seem to have no relationship to one's major course of study. Like it or not, that's the way it is. If you can't stomach that, a Bachelor's degree may not be for you.

As an aside to that point, there are BA/BS programs that soft-pedal or eliminate entirely the liberal education course work- and it's been my observation that they are, by and large, profit-driven. Nothing wrong with private colleges and universities, but this should be treated as a red flag, an indicator that the college may not be truly interested in the quality of education you receive. Over-use of the "life experience" option to get students past much course work is a real warning sign, Will Robinson.

If you find a school that has both AA/AS or BA/BS programs in the same field, you will find that much of the 2-year difference is in those liberal education classes. This pretty much shows that the quality of the technical education one receives in an associate's program is often nearly as good, if not equal, to that in a bachelor's program. If all you want is the technical side of an education, then sure, go for the associate's. But, it is still true that a bachelor's degree often does open doors that a "lesser" education does not.

My undergrad degree is a BS in Industrial Technology. Along the way, I met all the requirements for an associate's of science degree in Automotive technology. I have taught automotive technology, in two colleges that awarded AS degrees and certificates. Most of the students I taught did just fine with the AS or certificate, few really would have benefited by holding a BS degree in Auto tech, given the career they were interested in. BUT, having that 4-year degree would probably get them into management-track jobs (as it did for me.) I tell you this by way of analogy- chances are, your career as a chief engineer, studio manager, producer (in the real sense of the word,) etc. would be enhanced if you hold a BS/BA degree. You can make it there without that sheepskin, of course, and you have to dicide for yourself if those two years are better spent in school, or working the front lines. I will say that, in a recession, a good place to spend one's time is often in school. It would not be much fun to spend those two years slaving away at a dismal job, filpping burgers or flipping tape reels, only to find out that an aquaintence who spent those same two years gets a better job after four years of school, to your 2 years school + 2 years of "experience."

As you have interest in a business degree, keep this in mind: should you decide an MBA is a good move for you, you will find few if any programs that will admit you if you don't hold an accredited BS or BA degree.

My son is doing well running his own rehearsal/recording business, and working sound at events, with associate program study at a community college (Delgado Community College, New Orleans, if you are interested.) Frankly, at the age he currently is, he is doing better than I was at the same age. So there!

All that said, one of the best lessons I learned in undergrad school was this: I attended a talk by Edward Allbee, (playwright- "Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolfe?") and he said, among other things, that he learned "The purpose of a formal education is to teach you to educate yourself." If you can "own" that lesson, you will do just fine.
 
Thanks so much for that post, stevieb.



Does anybody have experience with a school called SAE? I have been talking to them and they offer a 9-month course to earn a diploma, but are going to begin offering AS degrees this fall, which the diploma can count towards for those who have already earned it.
 
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