Shadowplay

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robgreen

robgreen

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After what feels like an eternity, I've finally got something new to post up. It's a fairly dark wee number, but hope you enjoy.

I've heard it too many times of late and can't make out what's good or otherwise any more so comments and feedback on mix/song appreciated as always.

Cheers folks

 
robgreen said:
After what feels like an eternity, I've finally got something new to post up. It's a fairly dark wee number, but hope you enjoy.

I've heard it too many times of late and can't make out what's good or otherwise any more so comments and feedback on mix/song appreciated as always.

Cheers folks

Click to expand...

I like it, the voice / atmosphere. Sonically it's a territory I've mined myself over the years, and one I enjoy listening too. There are a few technical things I'd like to throw out there. The drums sound like they are on a distant hilltop far behind the song, and have almost no high end at all. You could bring them forward, or try something else. Some of the stops/fills seem to be off a bit timing wise. The main guitar figure seems like it's panned dead center and is crowding out the vocal. I'd say that there is too much bass, but probably not - mostly too little of the drums. There is a really cool background vocal (or patch?) appears around 1:20.
 
Thanks a lot chuck - I was desperately in need of fresh ears and I think all the issues you pointed out were spot on.

The drums have been a nightmare to be honest - I was intending this to be a more ambient piece with no drums when I recorded the guitar, so didn't bother to record to click track. That came back and bit me on the ass when I later decided I did want drums :facepalm:

The off timings therefore were a result of it being something of a fucker to track to and my ears gradually tuning into the off rhythm after hearing far too many times.

I've re-visited the drums which hopefully fit better into the rhythm and the mix now, and re-jigged vocals, guitar and bass a little. I think the changes have opened up the mix more and everything seems to sit a little better now. I hope it does anyway - my listening environment aint the best, and then the mix always sounds different on soundcloud from my DAW.

The thing you mention at 1.20 is me singing through a guitar phaser FX pedal - it was a last minute addition to add a little more depth, so I'm glad it works. Thanks a lot for your listen, critique and also your cool comments about Strangeways... in the other thread too, I am indeed a lucky fella :D

Updated mix is on the same link above y'all
 
I hate it when I have fairly dark wee... You should drink more water? And who doesn't like a fretless bass? I know I do... I like your song, and you have a decent voice, there are parts where it wanders a bit, but it's still good overall. It felt like a pad or some strings came in toward the end? I was thinking this production would benefit from something like that. I heard some BGV.
 
Also, there was a recurring and audible "click" in your song :-( It happened a few times. And the bass player got his caffeine on toward the end? Smack him and tell him to hold down the bottom…
 
nice tunage Rob


as I was listening I read the other posts and theyd cover what Id say...


but I love the arrangement and composition...really nice, I could see some B&W video matching this...all worked really well for me, you're quite a talent
 
RockinRobby said:
I hate it when I have fairly dark wee... You should drink more water? And who doesn't like a fretless bass? I know I do... I like your song, and you have a decent voice, there are parts where it wanders a bit, but it's still good overall. It felt like a pad or some strings came in toward the end? I was thinking this production would benefit from something like that. I heard some BGV.
Click to expand...

Arf yeah, maybe I should have titled it the 'I Got Me UTI Blues'. Thanks for your listen and comments robbie. I guess it maybe does wander a little towards the end, but it all comes in at 3:30, so I don't think it's too indulgent - I'm not looking for much in the way of polished pop, so I can live with an element of meandering I think.

I'll have to listen again for the 'click' as I wasn't aware of anything in that respect. There is no band by the way, it's just me. I agree that the bass could have been better anchored at the end though - I can try having a word with the player about holding down his caffeine and smacking his bottom, but he probably won't listen :cursing:

Cheers RR :)

kcearl said:
nice tunage Rob


as I was listening I read the other posts and theyd cover what Id say...


but I love the arrangement and composition...really nice, I could see some B&W video matching this...all worked really well for me, you're quite a talent
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks a lot KC – that’s really nice of you to say and I’m glad you liked. Maybe, I could use this for a first foray into music video – I got a couple of ideas how to possibly approach. I was watching This music video by Little Dragon recently which is very cool, but way out of anything I could produce.

When you say the other posts cover what you would say, are you still hearing any of the issues that chuck mentioned or more those of Robbie? I’d hoped that I’d resolved a lot of the former when updating the mix, but there could be some still apparent. Thanks fer yer time man :cool:
 
The drums don't seem to quite fit the song and sound too dry. Seems like they could be turned up slightly and use a little reverb to blend them into the rest a little better. It could just be my monitors are whack as hell. Haven't really been able to get use to em :P
 
The song sets a cool mood.

That bass is *real* boomy. IMO you really need to tame the low end. It'll loosen people's fillings.

I liked the clean guitar sound. You might want to give it a boost somewhere around 6K - 8K. Give it just a bit of sparkle.

The vocal has a good level of detail. I think it's a couple of db's too low in the mix. It's fighting a bit to be heard. I'm hearing a couple pitch issues here and there.

I'd turn down the kick quite a bit. I'd turn the snare and overheads up a bit.
 
Thanks a lot both of you. I've started re-working the mix to try and get this bugger balanced and I'll look at incorporating a lot of what you say. With the bass, I guess I got carried away as I think it provides a good counter-melody to the guitar and with the drums I was keen for them to anchor the tune and contrast with the amount of reverb elsewhere. Probably too much in both cases.

It's hard as I don't currently have proper monitors or a very good listening environment, but I think each iteration is getting a little closer. I'll post up again when done.

Thanks for your ears :)
 
robgreen said:
Thanks a lot both of you. I've started re-working the mix to try and get this bugger balanced and I'll look at incorporating a lot of what you say. With the bass, I guess I got carried away as I think it provides a good counter-melody to the guitar and with the drums I was keen for them to anchor the tune and contrast with the amount of reverb elsewhere. Probably too much in both cases.

It's hard as I don't currently have proper monitors or a very good listening environment, but I think each iteration is getting a little closer. I'll post up again when done.

Thanks for your ears :)
Click to expand...

Hey - also when I posted about the guitar messing with the vocal i didnt mean that it was too loud. I think it just needed to be panned a tinch to get it out of the way. The bass level would probably be ok but there is a bloom on certain notes that makes it overwhelming, meaning I think the problem is more one of freq content than level.
 
robgreen said:
With the bass, I guess I got carried away as I think it provides a good counter-melody to the guitar and with the drums I was keen for them to anchor the tune and contrast with the amount of reverb elsewhere.
Click to expand...

I thought the bass *part* was cool. I think it will still be cool if you turn down all the low end you have in it now. You can likely raise its overall level if you take that out and it will still be heard.
 
Cool. This has a lot of the elements that I like about your tunes. Super mellow with cool instrumentation and lyrics.

I'm not too crazy about the mix though, and the timing of the drums seems rough to me.

The mix reminds me of some of the first of yours that I heard. It is very dark and bassy. I think the bass and kick could come down quite a bit.

How're you doing the drums? I read that you tracked the song first minus a click and then added them later. I think that may be a problem here. If it were me, I'd go with your first instinct and not necessarily have a kit on this one...maybe some simple, brighter hand percussion like tamborine, or shakers?

I dunno - just some ideas. I like the tune a lot, but really find the kick/snare part to be distracting myself.
 
See, I just listened to Oddest Sea again right after this track and if you listen, I think you'll hear that one is just a little tighter and brighter sounding. Not that all your tunes must be mixed the same, but I'd like to hear you go more in that direction myself...
 
I like the bass, but then I usualy like a busy bass line. Agree about the kick being to high and the snare too low, also that the snare need some reverb on it. Very atmospheric. Shame about the timing due to the click track. I think it would be worth retracking with a click track.
 
Thanks very much guys for all your listens and comments. I'm going to give it one more shot in its current form to get the mix right and then move on for the time being (for better or worse) before it drives me to madness.

I *think* I've located the boomy frequency at around the 180-200Hz range, so with a cut I'm hoping to get it to sit better. I'll retrack a couple of pitchy vocal bits and look at tightening up the drum timing and levels.

Pete, thanks for your critique - I think the reason it sounds like some of my older stuff, is because parts of it date back a fair while. Some elements of this tune, including the bass pre-date the last few tunes I've posted on here.

I don't know whether it's an unusual way of working or not, but I tend to have a lot of tracks and ideas in various forms from quite a long time period and when they get revisited or developed, there's often some of the original elements in there. I liked the feel of what I had even if it was a little loose, so didn't want to completely retrack on this one. It's meant though that trying to get a drum track that works has been the single most time consuming thing I've done musically. I tried to lock a simple kick and snare to the bass and built it from there - with that in mind, it would probably crush my spirit to can it completely...

Chuck, Triplem, Heat and Toad - you are all gents. I'll post up the update when it's done :cool:
 
I like the melody & doomy lyrics. The bass is really thick and quite busy - you ought to give it a little more definition so that the busy ness is more than thud - a little peak of 4db at 3kh with a Q of 3 would make it stand up more or use a plectrum.
I get the feeling that this'd make a great J&TMChain type song after the 2nd chorus - as in throw on Wall of Sound distorted guitars. That would mean sacrificing some of the subtlties but the song does need a change of dynamic at some stage.
All that said - I LIKE IT!
 
rayc said:
I like the melody & doomy lyrics. The bass is really thick and quite busy - you ought to give it a little more definition so that the busy ness is more than thud - a little peak of 4db at 3kh with a Q of 3 would make it stand up more or use a plectrum.
I get the feeling that this'd make a great J&TMChain type song after the 2nd chorus - as in throw on Wall of Sound distorted guitars. That would mean sacrificing some of the subtlties but the song does need a change of dynamic at some stage.
All that said - I LIKE IT!
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks ray - I thought this one had well and truly sailed off into the distance :)

I'm going to just retrack the whole bass line I think. I was working on another tune last week and got a much nicer, more even sound running my bass into the amp and then DI'd from the line out. Cut out all the boom and overbearing frequencies and should clean up the mix a lot.

I needed a break from it before revisiting though - as you say, it's quite a downbeat number and I'd heard it so many times that it wasn't good for my mental state!

Interesting idea with the JAMC suggestion - the arpeggiated guitar kind of dominates the song and limits the dynamic changes, so I've tried to keep the interest with the other elements around it. Thanks a lot for taking the time :cool:
 
I would love to hear you move the main guitar part off further to the right to make space for the vocal. I think it would balance nicely especially when the second guitar comes in. Also, the drums need to come up in level, and I think they could use some high end too. You'll need to reassess the reverb level as well after you bring them up. You don't want to bring them forward with level just to send them back with too much verb.
 
I enjoyed the listen, and truth be told, I like what this song could be, and the direction it's going. Problem is, the rhythm is all over the place, and the mix is off. The song idea is really good, and I'd probably add it to my library or buy it if it was done properly, but if it were me, I'd start from the ground up and include that friggin' click track this time. Use a bit of auto-tune on your vocals, too, if you can get away with it. Off-pitch in places a wee-bit.

Thanks for sharing!
 
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