Set neck--essential or no?

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Whoopysnorp

Whoopysnorp

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I have a line on a cheap Les Paul copy that I could buy used for peanuts. From what I've read, the brand is decent for the price (it's an SX, which is from the same people that make Agile guitars). I'd probably use it as a project guitar and gradually swap out whatever electronics and hardware I felt were sub-par and make it into a decent but cheap axe. The thing is, though, is that it has a bolt-on neck, unlike the standard Les Paul design. I know set necks are better for sustain, but for a cheap guitar would it be a make-or-break thing? I have a Peavey Predator and an Ibanez RG560 which have bolt-on necks, and they certainly don't sustain as much as my Peavey Odyssey, which has a set neck. However, the Odyssey is also a lot heavier than the other two, which probably has something to do with it as well. People who have played more guitars than me: what's your opinion on set versus bolt-on necks?
 
if it's a plywood guitar a set neck would only be a gimmick...... you know so they could say "look it has a set neck and it sustains for ages." while it may help the sustain/tone, you've already lost so much that it's not going to help much.

so even on a cheap solidbody guitar a set neck will help the sustain and overall tone, but how much i don't know. if light was still here, he would be the dude to ask.

with the bolt on neck, you're not going to get a good les paul tone. it's probably going to be more like a strat with humbuckers. so it's up to you to decide if you want/need that sound.
 
donkeystyle said:
with the bolt on neck, you're not going to get a good les paul tone. it's probably going to be more like a strat with humbuckers. so it's up to you to decide if you want/need that sound.
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If this is true, I'll probably pass it up then. I read a good saying on here once: "A good deal on a shitty guitar is still a bad deal".
 
i dunno dude. i'm making assumptions. i just don't think it's going to have a really accurate.......i said good, but i meant accurate.......les paul sound. i think it'll look like a les paul, but I wouldn't expect it to sound like one.

but if you like the look and want the guitar, there's no reason you shouldn't get it. guitars with bolt on necks in certain situations can be badass.
 
a bolt-on can be used for everything, its not even a question of what kind of music is each one good for, that said, they will be very different, but personally I love the character of the sound of a bolt-on guitar. my point is if you like the sound of the guitar, and you're not 100% set on trying to copy the sound of a les paul, in which case you'd have to get a les paul anyways, don't worry about it being a bolt-on.

just some advice: take a look at the neck joint, if its square like a strat one, you might want to think it over if you like to play high up on the neck a lot. personally i dont like the square neck joint because i've always played ibanez guitars which have the nice contour, but im sure it would not take that long to get used to.

My philosophy is, if you take two cheap guitars that are equally priced, one with a set neck and one with a bolt on, then logically the guitar with the set neck had more of the cost going into the neck joint, and less into the rest of the guitar, is that really true? probably not, but it does stress the point that it really makes very little difference at all in a cheap guitar whether it has a bolt on or a set neck.

I think I've typed enough now.
 
I wouldn't say I'm looking to duplicate a Les Paul sound exactly, since of course you'd have to buy a Les Paul for that, and my Peavey Odyssey gets me pretty close anyway. I do love the look of the LP though. I suppose I'd want a tone that sounds like a heavy body with humbuckers, but there is variation in there. This guitar is on eBay so I can't really get a good look at it, but from the pictures it looks like a square neck joint. I don't really play a whole lot on the upper frets though, and Les Pauls aren't great for that anyway. Who knows; maybe I'll go for it.

And don't snipe me, you jerks! :mad:
 
For the most part I have moved on past bolt-on neck guitars. I keep one strat around now just for when I need that Strat sound. Bolt-in neck guitars are slightly different. You get all 4 surfaces of the neck in contact with the body, instead of just one with a bolt-on neck. The PRS CE guitars are good bolt-in necks and I would buy another.

That being said, set necks are just where it's at for me. You will see many players using bolt necks, but they just don't have the feel or sound I like. One big thing is that the fretboard angle to the body can be very different with a set in neck, which, for me, makes a guitar more confortable to play. From experience I have found that with the more gain or distortion you use, the less build quality you need in your guitar. But the cleaner and more open you play, the build quality becomes more and more important.

Now there are people out there who think a multi thousand Surh or Grosh bolt on guitar is the best thing out there. I think they are great for country when you want that snappy short sound for chickin pickin. Outside of that, IMO you can keep them. For me, it's about hitting a big G chord and listening to the guitar. That's all it takes for me anymore to see it a guitar speaks to me or not.

It's, of course, all subjective and opinion. But a set neck is more expensive to build, which is why the price point for set neck guitars is a couple hundred dollars more than that for a similar bolt neck guitar. My 2 cents is to look at how the guitar is built, put together, and feels to play. Cause frankly, there's not a guitar under $1500 that I'm not going to gut all the electronics anyways and replace with stuff I like. For example, I got a 70's Les Paul Custom and a newer Epi LP Std, both black, around the same time. The Custom was rough, so I put a new bridge, tuners, pickups, pots, wiring, switch, and jack on it. When buying all the stuff I doubled up on everything and did all the same things to the Epi. The 2 guitars now sound pretty much identical. They feel a little different cause they built them different in the early 70's. But there is not a person alive who could decide which I was playing on any recording I did, or which I am using live unless they look at the headstock.

So anyways, I think it does make a difference in a cheap guitar how it is constructed. I think it makes no difference if it costs you $300 or $3,000. The build is the one thing you can never change about the guitar. A quick glance at the MF catalog shows me that the cheapest bolt neck guitar is $79 and the cheapest set neck I can find is $300. Just something to think about.

H2H
 
by the way, whoopy, are you in the US or somewhere else? Cause overseas they're still making the PRS SE singlecut guitars that are a great value, IMO the best value on the entire market. I saw in europe there were about 6 different colors for the SE singlecut alone. Just something to think about.

H2H
 
Hard2Hear said:
by the way, whoopy, are you in the US or somewhere else? Cause overseas they're still making the PRS SE singlecut guitars that are a great value, IMO the best value on the entire market. I saw in europe there were about 6 different colors for the SE singlecut alone. Just something to think about.

H2H
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I'm in the U.S., and believe me, I won't be able to afford a PRS anytime soon. I only wish.
 
The PRS SE's can be had used for well under $400.

jsut fyi.

H2H
 
Hard2Hear said:
The PRS SE's can be had used for well under $400.

jsut fyi.

H2H
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I must say I did not know that.

Well, I just realized I have another cheap guitar with humbuckers and a bolt-on neck here in my apartment--my roommate's cheap Epiphone SG (special?). Though I'm definitely not crazy about that particular guitar, I could see it being good with some setup and some electronics modding, so maybe I can live without a set neck in something that wouldn't be my main axe anyway. We'll see how things turn out...there's another auction I've got my eye on as well.
 
Whoopysnorp said:
If this is true, I'll probably pass it up then. I read a good saying on here once: "A good deal on a shitty guitar is still a bad deal".
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To bad you you didnt see it before you bought the peaveys.
 
SHEPPARDB. said:
To bad you you didnt see it before you bought the peaveys.
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Oh, har dee har har. Have you ever played a Peavey Odyssey? They're surprisingly nice. The Predator is a pretty decent Strat knock-off too; I can't think of anything I don't like about it.
 
Whoopysnorp said:
I wouldn't say I'm looking to duplicate a Les Paul sound exactly, since of course you'd have to buy a Les Paul for that, and my Peavey Odyssey gets me pretty close anyway. I do love the look of the LP though. I suppose I'd want a tone that sounds like a heavy body with humbuckers, but there is variation in there. This guitar is on eBay so I can't really get a good look at it, but from the pictures it looks like a square neck joint. I don't really play a whole lot on the upper frets though, and Les Pauls aren't great for that anyway. Who knows; maybe I'll go for it.

And don't snipe me, you jerks! :mad:
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i dont know if this helps you any ... a couple of months ago I bought an "ARIA" MIJ LP-copy (30+ years old !!!!) for cheap money. got myself Bill Lawrence L-350 pickups (the real deal not BL-USA) ...and altough this axe has a bolt on neck as well, it beats my Gibson LP-studio hands down for tone ... PERIOD. After playing the ARIA exclusively for a couple of weeks, I picked up the LP-studio plugg'd it in ... and put her in the case again in disgust... the ARIA w/ the BillL is FAR superior to the studio

it does not however sustain as long as the LP, due to the fact that it has cavities and is way lighter (along with the bolt on neck) ... but again, it beats the studio for anything than sustain. ... damn - what an axe for 290 bucks...!!!!

I am getting Bill L's 350ies for my studio now :D :D :D :D (I like my studio a lot)

just make sure that the guitar you wanna buy is "older", as 99% of the new stuff is really cr@p (wood-wise) ... you wanna have good wood as a fundamental for a project ... building up on a cardboard guitar is not a smart idea. The guitars from the 70ies and 80ies still have very good woods (compared to whats sold new in 2005 :( :mad: )

best of luck!
alfred
 
PRS Tremonti SE

I bought one about a year ago for $368 with gig bag and tax...

Hard to find a better deal...
 
I had both a Les Paul and Strat for 7 years. The Les Paul was beautiful and sounded awesome. But, eh......there was just something that always happened once I got crankin' on that Strat. Would just kinda go crazy or something and find myself standing there sweaty and panting an hour later.

I guess I could be called a "minimalist" because I don't like collecting things and do like having a viable use for whatever I own, be it guitars, vehicles, girlfriends, whatever. So it always bugged me that this beautiful Les Paul just wasn't as much fun to actually play (for me anyway). Kinda sad really -- every guitar needs a good life and this one just couldn't get past second fiddle with me. Finally after many months of indecision, I found what I hope has since become a new and better life for it.

Bottom line: all the bolt-vs-set, single-vs-double-coil, and other technical comparisons -- however meritoreous in their own right -- become moot once things elevate to the cosmic level.

Go forth to seek and find "The One", and then "...never let her go. Never, ever let her gooooo...."
 
I have looked hard and long at those Agile and SX guitars from Rhondo Music. I have yet to read a bad review from someone about them. And, the customer service is supposedly outstanding. Supposedly they are among the best for buck in the under $250 catagory in all aspects...finish, feel, etc. (except setup...apparently typical to an Epi)

The only downfall I have heard about these guitars IS the initial setup, which usually can be easily modified and fixed. Also, the occasional errant fret sticking up too high, and the cheapie type pots on them. ...and most give the humbuckers an 8.5 out of 10 for sound and MOST seem to just leave them in and not upgrade them. Whereas pots at a couple bucks each aren't much of an additional cost..

It appears you can only order them thru Rhondo Music http://www.rondomusic.net/index.html or their Ebay store, which appears you have seen.

I have never personally played one, so I couldn't give you an honest opionion. I am just telling you I haven't really read a bad opinion about one in the many, many reviews I have read about them.

but...back to your question...set neck VS bolt on.
I have played a Strat for years, and have never felt that to be an undesirable feature. I would almost look at the issue as a matter of comfort (and looks if that's important). Rhondo's website states that the set neck: The set neck helps transfer string vibration to the body
Set necks tend to be more stable than bolt-ons (less likely to move and cause buzzing)....this
giving better sustain I suppose. But with MOST electric guitars, I haven't had a problem with sustain...especially when the amp gets cranked, etc :D
 
First of all, as a guitar builder, I would like to say that there is really nothing more expensive about a set neck compared to a bolt-on. In fact, I would say that a set neck could be even cheaper possibly. A deep-set neck or a neck-thru design is where the design/ build becomes a lot more complicated but these two options are not going to be present on a lower priced guitar. As far as sustain goes between these two designs, the whole point is kind of moot. The overall tone or character of the guitar is what will be noticably different, not the sustain, and these qualities are completely up to the individual as to what is good or bad. Sustain is achieved when the guitar as a whole forces the vibration to stay in the strings instead of being absorbed into the body. Sustain is more an issue of the quality of wood and workmanship, the design of the hardware and things of that nature. If you are interested in a guitar, play it unplugged and you will easily be able to determine it's natural sustaining properties. A guitar with a bad build quality, set neck or not, will be dull and lifeless with no beauty to the sound at all. Lastly, what most people consider sustain, a howling amp that mutates right on into stinging feedback, really doesn't have anything to do with the neck attachment on the guitar, it is just the amp.
 
I used to have a Epi LP Special for a backup. For 149.00 it was a pretty baddass lil git with tons of sustain for a bolt on. If you like the look and feel of the les paul and plan on modifying the git anyways I say go for it. If you want more sustain just pick up a Fernandez sustainer pickup (199.00 I think) and your guitar will susatin for as long as you want it to.

Gabriel
 
Well, I won the auction (nobody else even bid), so that's a goldtop Les Paul imitation with block inlays for $119. The seller is withing driving distance of me (he's in Des Plaines; I'm in Chicago), so I won't have to worry about paying shipping. At this stage, it'd have to be an incredibly shitty guitar for this to have been a terrible deal. I plan on making it a project guitar, like I mentioned, so having a body/neck to work with is my main interest.

Now, this may be a ridiculous idea, and feel free to call me crazy, but I was wondering if anybody had ever attempted modding a bolt-on axe by filling up the gaps in between the neck and the body with wood glue or something. I'm sure there would only be a subtle change if any, but it seems like it wouldn't be a terrible idea (assuming you weren't planning on removing the neck). Any thoughts?
 
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