Self releasing CD's: do you prefer EP's or full length CD's?

[fonz]

We are on the brink of putting our first CD out in the open.
We've got about 12 songs in total now, but we're not going to put them all on it. Also these tracks are not played by our whole band. These are the sketch-versions, played by our guitarist (he did guitar, bassguitar and programming drumloops) and vocals added by me. Probably 8 of them will make it to the final list, because they are, as a whole, a good representative of what we do. So, 8 songs wich lead to about a total playing time of a little less then 30 minutes. Considering the totla playing time and the fact that these songs are sketch-versions, it would be very odd to call it an album.
But it also does not feel right to call it a demo. I would condsider it a demo if there were just 2 or 3 tracks on it, mainly intended to try to interest record companies. Conclusion: we will call it an EP!

PS You can allready listen to 5 of the forementioned tracks on our site:

http://www.sonicbullet.com/music.htm

Greetz,
Fonz

 

[quadrajet]

Well, I guess another question related to all of this would be what is a fair price to charge for a CD that isn't quite what some would consider a full length? What exactly are people willing to pay? How do you determine that?

I'm curious to see how other indie artists determine this. Do you take cost and mark up by a fixed percent? I've been working with the formula of $1 for each song, plus $1.50 to the final total, but who knows if thats any good. I mean, Pink Floyd's "Animals" only has 5 songs on it but it's 40 minutes long so they price it like a full length. Conversely, Slayer's "Undisputed Attitude" has 14 songs but is only 30 minutes. I know someone is going to say it's not the length that matters, but rather the quality, but none of my girlfriends ever bought that argument either LOL!

I priced my last 10 song full length "Animosity in Human form" at $9.99 which seemed a little low, but I figured no one really knew who I was at the time. It must've been fair because people are buying it. Just curious how you guys determine your pricing in situations like these....

 

[fonz]

Given the fact that we are just starting out to expose ourselves to the public with our first CD/EP (or maybe we'll just call it an AM - AudioMedium), we surely don't want to ask a lot for it. At this stage we will be very happy if anyone at all would take the trouble to buy it. We will probably put a price on it so that in the end will get close to break even (depending on how many we're going to manufature and estimated sales figures).
Most importantly, we want to make it as easy for people as possible to access our music without too much trouble and too much costs. Therefore the selected tracks will also be available to download for free on our website, inlay-artwork included. If one would take the trouble to buy a copy, it will be additioned with extra's (we are thinking about a videoclip or something).

Greetz,
Fonz

 

[lykwydchykyn]

Let me clarify that I don't think there's anything wrong with calling a release and "ep" or "lp" or "album" for marketing purposes and to position in a certain way to the consumer. But feeling like you have to adhere to some strict definition of what an "ep" or "album" is makes no sense. Put your 8 songs on the CD and call it an EP, maybe even put an asterisk next to the last 3 songs with a note that says "bonus track". Sell it for $5 and it seems like a great deal.

I've been brainstorming a bit about how to sell the project I'm working on at the moment. Some of them might require the help of a good programmer. Here's a few I'm contemplating:

1. The CD would have some kind of software key or code that would unlock a "members only" area of the artist website, where people could download bonus materials (extra mp3's, pictures, printable sticker logos, video, leadsheets, etc).
2. Optionally, people could buy a "subscription" to the site and download all the tracks and bonus materials they want. This could be pretty cheap, like maybe $4 for a year of access or something. Keep in mind they can keep what they download indefinitely.
3. You could have an .iso file of the CD which people could download for a nominal fee, like $3-$4. It'd be a big download, but at least they'd have the mastered CD quality tracks just as if they'd bought the real deal.

I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that you just need to get stuff out there. Don't worry about charging what pro CD's cost, don't worry about piracy or people sharing files with their friends. Just get it out there and make sure your name is on it. And sell stuff as cheap as you can without 1.) lowering the perceived value of the product and 2.) losing money on a sale. After all, I've never met anyone who got rich from sales of an independent project. But I've known people who sold enough product on their own to get attention from labels and other business entities. I think that's what it comes down to as an indy: moving product.

Just a theory, though...

 

[fonz]

Exactly my thoughts........

 

[glynb]

Exactly my thoughts........

You could be about to make a mistake Fonz.
You already said the 8 songs are sketches, yet you want to put them 'out there'? I know it's very tempting to want to get stuff out to see what people think of it, but do you want to really put something out that you know is not yet finished, sub standard because you know you can make them bertter? It's like putting out a sketch for a painting and expecting people to imagine what the final painting in colour will look like!

We are forever being told on here (by knowledgeable people) that the best way to go is to put out highly polished 'finished' material, your best shot. If that means putting out 2 finished songs rather than 8 sketches then that may be the better way to go.

You may regret putting out some good songs in sketch form later, especialy if you're hoping to charge people for this rather than a give away, either way you shouldn't put out stuff you know you could improve on, resist the temptation and be patient and rerecord it until its perfect IMHO and if that means only putting out an EP with three class songs then so be it.

People are going to make an instant judgement about you and your band based on what they hear on this CD, they are not going to make allowances for the fact that these are sketches, that doesn't work and if they get a bad impression its near impossible to shift it later.

BTW what i said doesn't apply if you just want to give the 8 songs to a few family and friends for opinions, but i don't think that's what you have in mind right?

 

[fonz]

Hi GLYNB,

The main reason for putting our material on cd is make it possible to send it to venue-owners to give them an impression of what we do. We think that the quality of our sketch-versions are good enough for that purpose. If anyone else is interested in this stuff, we would only charge as little as possible, so one could obtain this demo, ep (or whatever it'll be called) for just a small fee (wich we can use for future recordings). I am aware of the fact that these sketches don't represent the ultimate level of what we want to achieve. But for demo-version they'll do. It's not that these songs are just bits and pieces of jamsessions or anything. These are completely worked out songs. It's just that they are not performed by the whole band. The guitar and bassguitar lines are played by our guitarist and the drums are drumloops, programmed by the same guy. On top of that we recorded my vocal parts. So we call them just sketches because of that.
Off course we would like to do supurb studio recordings with the whole band, to achieve an ep or album wich is worth putting out for the public and selling it for a reasonable price. But we, as a whole band, are not just ready for that. And another important thing for me is that you can make the most excellent recordings on a cd, the question is, can you perform those songs also live on a high level?! That's why we are going to try to gain interest from venue-owners/planners with our "sketches", so we will be able to play our songs as a whole band for an audience.
Being able to put on a great live performance is the thing we are aiming for at this moment. When we get the feeling our public digs what we do, then we will take further steps into the recording process.

Greetz,
Fonz

 

[glynb]

Comes down to knowing your market.
If you're playing in clubs to kids how many of them already ask for you CD per gig? 1, 20, 50, of those how many would pay $5, $10, how many of them can afford that? If the audience is more adult, maybe they can afford the higher charge?

If you are not currenlty rquested for CDs at gigs then how many are you likely to sell if you make one, albeit you casn push it on stage and have a merchandising table and sell it on your site etc.

If the purpose is getting a record deal, then a top quality 3 songs demo will do, and for club managers to get gigs a 5 song demo of excerts from live shows might be suficient.

How many people regularly buy CDs (EP or full album) from unknown independent bands/artists? Few i would guess.

 

[get2sammyb]

Just picked up on that comment about unfinished recording thing.

We had a recording of a live performance we did on our MySpace. It was one of our first gigs. The recording was awful. When we turned up to our next gig we were getting laughed at 'cos of that recording.

ANYWAY...

My band is considering spending the summer recording some new songs. We thought that the best idea would be to get as many tracks on the CD as possible - I think we might be doing 15 songs or so.

We might produce the 15 track CD properly and sell it for about £5-£7 and also offer a 3-4 track CD for labels and venues (or a gig sale price of about £1).

It seems like the best plan to me.... to get as many songs on a CD as possible. Surely the listeners will only skip through an unsigned bands CD? If they don't like a song, they either won't rip it to their computer, or they just won't listen to it again?

£5 for 15 tracks sounds like good value though?

Maybe I've got the wrong philosophy.

 

[glynb]

Why have the two formats?
Why not do the 15 track CD and for clubs just rip the 4 best songs to a CDR. or put your four 'best' songs first on the 15 track CD and send that to clubs if you're seeking gigs?

If they don't like your first songs they won't listend to all 15 anyway. if they like the first few songs there's no harm in putting 15 on the CD, is there?

Providing you have 15 QUALITY tracks that is. If you're in any doubt about the quality of a track, leave it off.

If you do the two format thing consider giving away the four track as a taster. then sell the 15 track for £5.

 

[get2sammyb]

Why have the two formats?
Why not do the 15 track CD and for clubs just rip the 4 best songs to a CDR. or put your four 'best' songs first on the 15 track CD and send that to clubs if you're seeking gigs?

If they don't like your first songs they won't listend to all 15 anyway. if they like the first few songs there's no harm in putting 15 on the CD, is there?

Providing you have 15 QUALITY tracks that is. If you're in any doubt about the quality of a track, leave it off.

If you do the two format thing consider giving away the four track as a taster. then sell the 15 track for £5.

Kinda what I meant but I didn't put it across very well

Cheers for the comments.

 

[Ced]

I hate to buy a EP that cost the same price as a full lenght and that got nothing more.. same song as the next album..