Roland VS 1824CD

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Davester

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I just purchased the Roland VS 1824CD on eBay, they guy said it came with the manual, when in fact, he only sent the appendices. I've looked all over the internet and Roland's website and can't seem to find a place to purchase the manual for this particular model. I see the instructional videos for all the other models, just not the VS 1824. Does anyone know where I can find one to purchase? :confused:
 
Davestar my man, you may be in luck. I recorded an entire project on a VS1824CD, and in the beginning, I was clueless, so I brought in an engineering consultant, and we photocopied the entire (massive) manual for him. He may still have his copy. If he does, I'll try to get it from him and I'll be happy to send it to you for the price of shipping. After recording an entire commercial release on it, I am a general wealth of knowledge about the thing. I confess I didn't do the mixing or mastering, so I don't really know much about its effects and advanced editing capabilities, but I definitely know how to track with it.
I'm currently upgrading, but I'm keeping it for a remote unit, using a Digi002 as a front end for it. This allows me to go into it in stereo by S/PDIF, bypassing its preamps and AD convertors completely. Send me a PM or email me. In a worst case scenario, we could make a whole copy again. Then you will owe my wife big time.-Richie
 
Roland VS 1824 manual

If you could get your hands on that manual, that would be awesome. I'd pay whatever it takes to make it worth your wild - just let me know how much. We've had it for one week and have figured out some things by trial and error, but its taking forever. All I need is the owner's manual and the user's guide - I have the appendices.

I've been wanting a Roland for a while now, and now that I finally get one, I can't use it because the guy couldn't find the damn manual . . . what a tease!

Thanks!
Dave :D
 
Yo Dave- First, you don't have to "make it worth my while"- I'm not a prick. I'm just trying to help you. Bad news- Aidas, my engineering consultant, tossed the manual *last week*. Sorry, that sucks. OK- I'm going to give you a magic # for starters.- 323-890-3741. That's Roland hard disc support. Because even when you get the manual, there will be things that are just not clear. They were *very* helpful to me when I got stuck. Call them. I bet they'll either send you the manuals, or sell them to you. If not, I'll ship you mine at your expense, and you can have a week to photocopy them. It took my wife 40 minutes, and she's good. Then you send them back. If you want to compensate me in any way, what the hell, buy my album. It's a tutorial in how to defeat the pres and AD conversion of a VS1824CD. Lord, you don't know the S/PDIF I've seen...
Anyway, call Roland on Monday, and if they don't help you out, email me and we'll work it out. Jesus, I had enough trouble comprehending that box *with* the manual. I can't even imagine what you're going through. Here's a few clues- Anything you can send into the box by S/PDIF will bypass the Roland's pres completely, which is a good thing. shift+system > system parameters (F5) . Set the clock to digital 1 using the cursor and the jog wheel (digital 2 is optical, "int" is analog/internal). Set whatever is going in to 44.1 khz if you want it to be CD compatible. Match the Roland to 44.1khz when you create a new song. Then- whatever tracks you are going to use (you get 2 in S/PFIF), push that track status button, and hold it down, which will show you the internal patch bay. Whatever input it is patched to will blink yellow. Push the blinking yellow light to disconnect the track from the input, still holding the status button down,and push "digital".
You do the same thing with the second track, except you push shift+digital (digital 2). Now push the track button above the first track and *turn off* "link". This should do the same for the second track, but check it anyway, the same way. The track select buttons will also give you access to EQ and panning. Yay. Of course, the fader/mute button will give you access to tracks 13-18. I find it simplest to shift+song > name > push "alpha numerics" to type in the name of the song, then > "write", then "execute". That will create the new song. Then, holding each track status button down, push the blinking corresponding track select button until nothing is patched to anything. Then you can see what the hell you are doing. Then patch only the tracks being recorded to the proper input. Anytime you're stuck somewhere, pushing play/display will take you back to the song.
If you turn off whatever digital device the VS is clocking off of while the Roland is turned on, you'll have to reset the system parameter/clock when you turn it back on. Even if you are going into the Roland from an analog preamp, you'll get your best sound by turning the channel volume as low as possible ("line") and getting your gain from the outboard preamp.
More hints- under those same system parameters (shift/system> global parameters), you'll find fan control. Engaging that (play/record) will turn off the bloody fan whenever you hit play or record. Do you love me yet? Next hint- get a foot switch- Boss FS-5U. Under system parameter2, you can engage it. The foot switch will enable "play" (or record if the record button is pushed) and "stop". This is a must if you are tracking yourself.
Basic editing- to erase a song, shift/song > erase. You have to cycle through the songs with the jog wheel and "mark" the songs to be erased, then "execute". Same deal to "select" a song to work on. Please note that when working on a song in record mode, when the track status button is green, it is playback only, yellow is armed so you can set levels, as if you were recording, red blinking is ready to record and solid red when actually recording. You can use shift/track to edit tracks. Track cut will eliminate the section of the track determined by the times you set on the clock "from" and "to", but will move the rest of the track. like cutting out a piece of analog tape. Track erase will leave silence in the space erased, but doesn't move the rest of the track. You have to select the tracks to be cut or erased by pushing the appropriate track status buttons so they light up red. If you don't want to edit a track, make sure that track status button is not lit. If you screw up, don't worry, "undo" will undo the last 1,2, or 3 things you did.
When you are done with all this bullshit, shift/song > optomize > execute. This will erase from the memory bizzillions of edits, multiple takes, whatever. If you do not do this, you will run out of hard disc space pretty quick, and backups may not even fit on the CD, and will take forever to load. Always optomize the song before you save or backup or burn. Note after you optomize, you cannot undo. Optomizing also saves the current patch scheme.
Lastly, I'll type you through burning CD's and CD-R backup and recovery.
First, backup- Push CDR/Mastering then CDRBk. Move the arrows up and down the list of songs and "mark" the song or songs you want to back up then execute. Don't use cheap CDR's, and most inportantly, use a lens cleaner disc frequently, or backups will fail. If it does fail (occasionally), just power it down, restart, and use a different CDR. You can't escape, so your song better be saved (shift/zero). Normally, you use shift/stop to power down normally. Starting to get it? CDRRC (CDR recover) under CDR/Mastering works the same way. Mark the song and execute .
OK, let's burn- first, you need to have what you want to burn on 2 tracks. If it's a stereo recording, that's already done. If more than 2, you'll need to mix it down (Roland puts on airs and calls it mastering) If it's mono on one track, do an edit track (track copy) and copy the whole thing to another track. OK- Push CDR/Mastering > mastering room (F1). To just listen, set the fields for status "record", switch "off". so mix. When you're happy with the mix, change switch to "on". You want to have CDrec mode "on". marker "on", not that it matters, we haven't covered markers. CDrec mode does matter though. As you record the mixdown tracks, the Roland will create a CD compatible image of the song in real time, which will reduce the time in burning a lot, because the conversion is already done. The default master mixdown tracks are 17-16 and 18-16. That's fine, leave it alone.
Now turn the "switch" field on, zero, record, play. You will see the mixdown tracks on 17/18. If you want to play them back before you burn, change record to play, leave the switch on, and only the master fader will work, so you know you have achieved mixdown. When mixing down, watch the master levels on the right to make sure you are not clipping.
Now exit the mastering room, put in a CD, and wait for it to stop blinking (always). Under CDR/mastering, select CD WT (CD write). Now push F1
"Sel Tr" (select track) wait... a menu of your virtual v-tracks will appear. Use the pane buttons to go all the way to the right, mark 17-16 and 18-16 as the left and right track, then push "back". Select speed 4X, finalize "on" if you want to play it on a regular CD player, "off" if you intend to add more songs to the CD. The Roland will still play it if it isn't finalized, but your home player won't. "Track at once" is the default, don't mess with it. Now "execute" and agree to all the legal bullshit. It will say "converting" for a second (you already converted it by selecting CDR Rec mode during mixdown), then "writing" for a while, then "finalizing" for one minute,and it spits out your CD. You can burn more, and the Roland will remember your settings and selected tracks as long as you don't turn it off.
To anybody who read through this, sorry about the bandwidth, but this guy needs help *now* To Dave, I hope this helps. Let me know whether Roland is going to get you a manual. If not, I will help you out. Good luck. You have entered what we like to call "The Roland House of Pain".-Richie
 
for anybody interested, i have the '1680-files' in pdf. i guess most of it applies to the 18**-series. mail me if yer interested (quite large files!).
also, do a search for 'brown bag', the 'translated' vs-manual!
btw: have you seen vsplanet.com?
 
So where did Davestar go? I figure he's either tracking happily while waiting for Roland to send him his new manuals. or he read my post and hanged himself.-Richie
 
Here I am. The info you gave me in your last post was a big help - thanks! I figured some of that stuff out by playing around with it, but alot of it I didn't. I was able to burn a CD, which is our ultimate goal. I used the number you gave me and ordered the manuals - we should get them in a week or so.

The quality of the recording I made wasn't very good though. I'm not sure why. When I play it back we have it going through the PA system to listen to it and then record, then when we burn the CD and listen to it on the computer or stereo it sounds different. Can I forward you a copy of the recording I made and maybe you could listen to it and tell me what I'm doing wrong? I don't know if you can actually listen to it and tell what's wrong though, can you? Let me know.
 
Did you say you had the 1680 manual in pdf file format; I wonder if that would help me if I have the 1824CD model? Is it possible for you to e-mail the file (just the owners manual and users guide only)? That would be awesome if you could. Let me know.

I went to VSplanet.com, nice forums - I'll add it to "my favorites"
 
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Well, you know I'm there for you Davestar. I'll be happy to listen to whatever you got. Understand that I spent the last 2 years recording a commercial release on a VS1824CD. Not mixing it, not mastering it, just tracking it. In many ways it is a tutorial in how to use outboard gear to bypass everything the Roland doesn't do well. The main key is bypassing or minimizing the use of its preamps. It's a very good mixer, and a very good hard disc recorder. Its AD conversion is mediocre, not real bad or real good. Its preamps totally suck, and bypassing them is the real key. You see those little knobs over each channel that say line/mic? Not one of mine has been turned up from "line" in almost 2 years. You will need preamps that provide a lot of clean gain, and they are not in the Roland. Even an M-Audio DMP-3 will vastly improve the recorded sound from the VS. Let me know what if any preamps you have, and we'll go from there. If you don't have any preamps, there is one (or more) in your future.-Richie
 
OK, we don't have another preamp. Can you suggest a good one to buy that's not too expensive. Also, would it be ok to buy it used (like off of eBay) or should I buy it new? How much do they normally run $$
 
That's a whole can of worms. Like Richie mentioned, the DMP3 would work. Never used it myself, but sounds like its some good clean gain. I use a 1880 and I am thankful of the day where I said, "Golly gee, how can I improve my sound....." It was then, I realized the potential in getting outboard preamps. 'Cause you know when you turn those pres up, they're NOISY and VERY TOUCHY in the reguard that you move them a tiny bit and your gain goes way up. Maybe thats just my 1880. DMP3 new on Ebay is $159. Sounds like a good deal and I've heard nothing but good things about them for the $$ you pay. When you work that in, sometime you may want to think about better converters. What else? How much can you spend?
 
What Phophene said. Get a DMP-3 for starters. Another box you may find very useful is TC Electronics M300 ($200 at Guitar Center). Not only is it a dual engine FX/Reverb unit that is quite usable, but... with the bypass button engaged, it's a pretty good cheap A-D convertor. So- jack the mic into the DMP-3 and send 2 balanced lines out to the 1/4" jacks of 2 channels on the Roland. Leave the Roland's channel level set full counterclockwise (line). I guarantee you that this will vastly increase sound quality. Better yet- jack those 2 balanced lines into an M300, and send 2 channels of S/PDIF out to the S/PDIF in on the Roland, and patch those 2 channels to Digital and shift+digital, remembering to turn off "link". This will *totally* bypass the Roland's pres. I basically recorded an entire album that way, using cheap outboard pres (M-Audio DMP-3, DBX386), mid priced pres (Joemeek twinQcs) and one wicked high end pre (Avalon AD2022). After 2 years tracking with the Roland, I am convinced there is no way to get good sound using its preamps to get gain. Someday I'll write a book and send it to Roland tech support- "How I Defeated Most of the Functions of the VS1824CD and Made a Perfectly Good Album With It".
Aside from that, here's the good news and the bad news-
Bad news- the VS1824CD's software system is proprietary, it cannot export WAV files, and nothing but a VS studio can read its backup discs. In order to pull my first album off the VS studio into Pro Tools, we had to add a click track (about 4 beats) to the beginning of one track, copy it to all the others in the song, pull the tracks off by S/PDIF as audio data, 2 tracks at a time in real time, and then use the click to synch the tracks manually in Pro Tools. It took 16 hours to pull the tracks off, and 5 hours to synch them.
The good news- in 2 years of tracking and overdubs, the Roland *never* blew out a button, burned out a CDR-drive, dropped a track, failed to back up and recover, or lost or corrupted a single audio track. We asked a lot of that thing, and it survived the recording of "Reunion". More importantly, "Reunion" survived the Roland VS1824CD.-Richie
 
RM, you are still making me want that 2022. I tried one out for 20 minutes in a proaudio store, but it was nothing more than chattering through a few diferent mics in it. I wonder how many miles it is ahead of other "clean" pres (ie sytek, grace). I've got the 737, which the pre doesn't thrill me, but the EQ and comp make up for it. Oops..this is a Roland thread.
 
OK, I'm tracking one on eBay. It's an M-Audio DMP3 (dual mic preamp/direct box). Does this sound like the right one? One question before I bid on this thing . . . It only has 2 inputs - we need at least 4 to run the drum mics. Can we still use this preamp?
 
Well, you could use the DMP3 on your most "important" drum mics, which to me is the Overheads. To you, this may be kick and snare, or your best 2 mics. But, no, you cannot use 4 mics on 2 inputs. Can you afford 2 DMP3's? If not, I'd say just use your most critical mics on the DMP3 and the rest can go into the VS1824. I was looking at the 1824 and I realized it's pretty much just like my 1880....so you only have 2 XLR inputs. If Richie is still lurking, he might have a suggestion for the rest of the mics, for example XLR--->UNBAL transformers. I try to avoid them, but Richie, you have any suggestions?
 
What Phosphene said- use the DMP-3 for the overheads, and the Roland's pres for any remaining drum mics. Although drum sound is important, great pres on drums are not that critical. Voice and guitar are different. -Richie

BTW Davester, approximately where are you located?
 
So what can you do? If I want to record 7 drum mics, I put OHs through the SPDIF, Kick/Snare through XLR, then my other 2 mics I use XLR-->Unbal. transforemers. I heard that you should use as few transformers like that as possible (noisy?). Is there any other options I am overlooking instead of using the cheap-o transformers. Oh....buy XLR--->Unbal cables....right? Soon I will get a 2480 and this wont be an issue. Richie, are the converters better in a 2480 than 1880 you think?
 
I'm not as familiar with the 1880, but XLR to balanced 1/4" should work. The 1824 1/4" line ins accept balanced or unbalanced inputs. The answer? more preamps, either rackmount or a good mixer. I much prefer outboard pres. Yes, I believe the 2480 has better pres and better A-D conversion. I have lots of other answers, but they aren't cheap ones. I just converted to a Digi002/PC setup, and the Roland is only used now as a remote recorder. The digi002 sums my inputs to S/PDIF and takes care of A-D conversion, and I can use my outboard pres, supplemented by the focusrite pres in the 002. Yep, it rocks.-Richie
 
You're right they do accept bal. 1/4. I forgot. No sense in degrading your signal with transformers. I need to buy some more cables!!!
 
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