RNC compressor

[jmorris]

I have a friend that has used this compressor a lot. He was chief engineer for BIG studio in town. We are talking SSL 4000 g+, 2 STUDERS etc. They have an Neve 33609 compressor( I think that is the mod. #). Anyways, he said he did not really hear a hell of a lot of difference between the 2. They are only about 200 bucks also. It is amazing what has transpired in tha last 10 years with gear. I jjst might buy one of them things!

 

[qb2k5]

im buying one also..

Im tired of using plugins... I heard alot of good things about this lil compressor.

 

[tc4b]

I love mine, but it's also the only outboard comp I've ever used. It's very transparent... compresses to whatever degree I tell it to and doesn't "pump and breathe" or otherwise distort the track. Just incredibly useful.

I got mine here, with free shipping and two free cables, nice.
http://www.humbuckermusic.com/1001.html

 

[Gilliland]

There's a thread on rec.audio.pro right now from a number of people (some of them quite knowledgeable) who are hearing a lot of distortion through the little RNC. It certainly has a good reputation, which is why the r.a.p thread is so surprising to me. But these are folks who know their stuff.

I've got one here, but I haven't actually used it yet. Maybe this week.

 

[FALKEN]

They have an Neve 33609 compressor( I think that is the mod. #). Anyways, he said he did not really hear a hell of a lot of difference between the 2.

you've got to be kidding....

 

[Harvey Gerst]

J.P. Gerard is certainly one of the most knowledgable guys around, but if the RNC distorts, I sure haven't heard it. We have a lot of RNC's at the studio and they've always delivered flawless, neutral compression.

I've measure the RNC six ways from Sunday, and it always delivers spectacular results, with specs way too modest, compared to actual measurements.

Here are the RNC specs I tested. All tests were made using a brand new Neutrik A2 Audio Analyzer test station. The FMR Audio spec is in italics, and my findings are below that:

Claimed: "Noise Less than -90dBu over 20-20kHz"
Measured: It was more like -117dBu.

Claimed: "Frequency response 10 - 100k Hz ±0.5dB @ 0dBu"
Measured: It was actually 200k Hz before it hit the -.5dB point.

Claimed: "Clip point +22.5dBu @ 3% THD, 1kHz, greater than 2kOhm load"
Measured: I got almost +28dBU out of it before it hit 3% THD.

Claimed: "Distortion less than 0.5%, 6 dB G.R. @ 1kHz, 6:1, 6.0msec attack, 0.5 sec release, 0dB gain, 0dBu"
Measured: Following exactly those settings, I read something like 0.004% Distortion.

At that point, I called Mark for the first time.

 

[FALKEN]

J.P. Gerard is certainly one of the most knowledgable guys around, but if the RNC distorts, I sure haven't heard it. We have a lot of RNC's at the studio and they've always delivered flawless, neutral compression.

I've measure the RNC six ways from Sunday, and it always delivers spectacular results, with specs way too modest, compared to actual measurements.

Here are the RNC specs I tested. All tests were made using a brand new Neutrik A2 Audio Analyzer test station. The FMR Audio spec is in italics, and my findings are below that:

Claimed: "Noise Less than -90dBu over 20-20kHz"
Measured: It was more like -117dBu.

Claimed: "Frequency response 10 - 100k Hz ±0.5dB @ 0dBu"
Measured: It was actually 200k Hz before it hit the -.5dB point.

Claimed: "Clip point +22.5dBu @ 3% THD, 1kHz, greater than 2kOhm load"
Measured: I got almost +28dBU out of it before it hit 3% THD.

Claimed: "Distortion less than 0.5%, 6 dB G.R. @ 1kHz, 6:1, 6.0msec attack, 0.5 sec release, 0dB gain, 0dBu"
Measured: Following exactly those settings, I read something like 0.004% Distortion.

At that point, I called Mark for the first time.

Harvey,

did you do this while in "bypass" mode or while actually trying to compress the signal? I can attest that I have heard the distortion. Any compressor will distort if you push it hard enough. lets at least be reasonable here. How much gain reduction were you attempting when you took these measurements?

besides, does this have any relation to the original poster's claim that it sounds like a 33609? That statement in and of itself is laughable, at best, regardless of specs.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Harvey,

did you do this while in "bypass" mode or while actually trying to compress the signal? I can attest that I have heard the distortion. Any compressor will distort if you push it hard enough.

besides, does this have any relation to the original poster's claim that it sounds like a 33609? I recently picked up a Chandler LTD-2 and IMO it is in a separate universe thant he RNC.

Uh, no, it was not in "bypass" mode. I had 6dB of compression showing on the display. Standard compression mode. I tested the RNC at their claimed settings to verify the performance. It beat their claimed specs easily.

I didn't hear any distortion using a 1k Hz sine wave input with 6dB of compression, nor did I measure any significant amounts of distortion, nor did I see any indications of distortion on the scope. I was pretty careful in my measurements.

As to the other claim, I don't know whether it sounds similar to a Neve or not; it's just a great sounding, very neutral compressor to me.

 

[FALKEN]

Harvey,

can a sine wave really be "compressed" ? I think in that scenario the signal would merely be "attentuated" at a constant ratio. When I had mine I struggled to get 6db of GR out of it and by the time I did the signal was so distorted it was unuseable. different strokes, I guess.

Saying that you "can't tell the difference" betweenan RNC and a 33609 would be like saying you "can't tell the difference" between a squier strat and a 1954 Les Paul, or a POD and a '64 Bassman. I don't need to have driven a ferrari to know that a kia for roughly 8% of the price doesn't exactly drive the same, even though both will get you from point A to point B.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Let me add one more thing:

I bought one of them, based on Fletcher's recommendation. He wasn't even a dealer for them at the time.

I neither knew Mark at that point, nor had I talked to him. I happened to have a Neutrik A2 test station here on loan when the RNC arrived. I had no preconceived ideas of what the results would be, and I just decided to test the unit to see if it met its specs.

I was head of Quality Control at JBL for many years, and I was in charge of QC at IMC for several years. I am no stranger to test equipment or measuring stuff.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Harvey,

can a sine wave really be "compressed" ? I think in that scenario the signal would merely be "attentuated" at a constant ratio. When I had mine I struggled to get 6db of GR out of it and by the time I did the signal was so distorted it was unuseable. different strokes, I guess.

Before I added makeup gain, the output did simply look attenuated.

I started with a .775V (-10dB) signal going into the unit, set the theshhold to light the 6dB LEDs, and I adjusted the makeup gain to get a .775V signal coming out, and measured that. The signal looked, sounded, and measured clean.

Yes, you can mangle anything if you push it hard enough. We do a lot of heavy metal groups here; I have no problems with recording screamers, even when the RNC is lit up like a Christmas tree.

 

[Gilliland]

J.P. Gerard is certainly one of the most knowledgable guys around, but if the RNC distorts, I sure haven't heard it. We have a lot of RNC's at the studio and they've always delivered flawless, neutral compression.

I've measure the RNC six ways from Sunday, and it always delivers spectacular results.....

Harvey, I wonder if this whole issue isn't simply the result of some users setting a fast release time on a low frequency signal.

...there's a mutual (and universal) exclusivity between low frequency fidelity and fast compressor release times. Stated another way: the faster a compressor's release time, the more distorted the lower frequencies will be. "Okay, okay!", you say, "I know that! But why don't I have similar problems with my other compressors?" Simply put, the RNC's normal mode release times are shorter than many compressors (some of the fastest that we've seen). This means that the RNC will induce low frequency distortion more frequently than your other compressors.

"How do I avoid or reduce the low frequency distortion?" This one's easy: increase the release time until the distortion goes away.

I think I'll go post these quotes on r.a.p as well. That could be the explanation for these seemingly contradictory experiences.

 

[jmorris]

you've got to be kidding....

No, I am not kidding. The friend of mine is a very well known guy in town and VERY well respected. He is also very good friends with Mick Guzauski ( Claptons engineer). He knows his shit. We all grew up in the same town.city. He has all the top gear at his finger tips and he swears by them ( RNC). Now, this is not to say at all that they are the "end all" compressors. Just that they are a fine piece of gear that work extremely well for some things and are damn cheap, and their preformance can at times rival the "big dogs".

 

[FALKEN]

No, I am not kidding. The friend of mine is a very well known guy in town and VERY well respected. He is also very good friends with Mick Guzauski ( Claptons engineer). He knows his shit. We all grew up in the same town.city. He has all the top gear at his finger tips and he swears by them ( RNC). Now, this is not to say at all that they are the "end all" compressors. Just that they are a fine piece of gear that work extremely well for some things and are damn cheap, and their preformance can at times rival the "big dogs".

....this is just crazy talk. I should also believe in the boogey man, I suppose.

 

[jmorris]

Harvey,

can a sine wave really be "compressed" ? I think in that scenario the signal would merely be "attentuated" at a constant ratio. When I had mine I struggled to get 6db of GR out of it and by the time I did the signal was so distorted it was unuseable. different strokes, I guess.

Saying that you "can't tell the difference" betweenan RNC and a 33609 would be like saying you "can't tell the difference" between a squier strat and a 1954 Les Paul, or a POD and a '64 Bassman. I don't need to have driven a ferrari to know that a kia for roughly 8% of the price doesn't exactly drive the same, even though both will get you from point A to point B.

Falken,

interesting comparisons. I have owned a 1959 Les Paul Suburst when I had my Vintage store back in the 80's. I played the 'burst 1 time ,then put it away. It was ok, but to this day I DO NOT buy all the hype of vintage. Vintage whatever. Sure there are some very fine pieces of gear/guitars out there. But, being old or expensive does not automatically make them good. Also, I had what was thought to be the only round hole D'Angelico arch top guitar. It played ok, sounded pretty nice, but next to my old L4 that had been refinished it lost. As a mechanic by day I can tell you the differences between a Kia and Ferrari are huge, but when listening to recorded music 99 out of 100 people if not all wont be able to tell the difference between a 59 LP and a 75. Now, watching a race between Kia and Ferrari? That another story. My 10 year old daughter can tell me that. With guitars, it is 95% feel and taste.

 

[jmorris]

....this is just crazy talk. I should also believe in the boogey man, I suppose.

Well, uh..... yeah! Don't you?

 

[jmorris]

Motivation? Why do I have to be motivated? It is simply an interesting topic as where (some)gear has gained lots of quality and prices have dropped for similar performances. See, this is a discussion thread. This is what we do here

 

[earworm]

this isnt clear yet for me;
if i push the input gain on my mixer to lets say +60db,
and i got a compressor on the insert of that channel,
i will most likely have a distorted signal entering the compressor,
but where will the distortion start?
in the preamp of the mixer? (if im correct mine has about 24 db headroom or is that not just the preamp?)
and if a real loud signal enters the compressor, can this give distortion in the signal"path" even before the audio hits the vca of the compressor,
maybe the 6 db of gain attenuation comes too late,
doesnt the treshold and ratio make sure the output signal isnt clipping?

maybe thats why some people hear distortion, distortion from even before it hits the rnc?

dont know...tell me !

 

[Tonio]

you got it earworm-to a degree, if the signal is distorted before the comp, its distorted, you can't un-distort the signal. But I think they are talking about the RNC distorting. I havne't heard the RNC distort a signal out of the ordinary..
It may be possible that the original signal is somewhat distorted(enough that its not heard), so when the RNC brings up the amplitude, the distortion rears its head (enough to be heard).
But that's just the normal case with using comps. you gotta bring in a good signal. You can't expect the RNC to clean it up-other than the dynamics no?

T

 

[earworm]

yeah true, thanks to heavy compression i can hear all the bad things in music,
the only compressor i can distort like HELL is my
tc electronic triple c, its a digital multiband machine,
the distortion is clipping and doesn't sound good at all

and to throw a little more fuel in the fire:
someone said that "can u distort a pure sine wave" ? right?
ehm, why not,
if u push the volume of a sine wave it becomes a square which we can consider a distortion sound, no?