Rhyming.Hummmmm

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Henri Devill

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What do you think about rhyming?.The different types..How do you approch it?And if you abandon rhyme do you use sylabic{sp.} meter?Do you use rhyme to accent a phrase?


Don
 
Hi Don

Ya know.....I am not going to pretend to know what that means.....
All I know is if it rhymes...it rhymes.....ya know?
I do try to use different structures as far as rhyming goes...

AABB.............ABAB..........ABAA.......etc.
That kind of thing....
Joe
 
whenever I get stuck, I crank up the analogx.com rhyme generator...

Great stuff!!!

Queue
 
i always do scratch vocals first and that helps the ryming(if there is any) to flow naturally instead of sounding like...

Oh baby, Oh baby, How I love you.
Your hair is the sun on a fresh fallen dew.
But you don't see me reaching for you.
Watady da da boolopa choo.
 
Webcyan,
DAMMIT DUDE! Thats F****** Good!

I dont know about the mechanics of rhyming either...I have a rhyming dictionary but I dont get much use out of it...for some reason....I guess I should...Im interested to learn more about what your saying though...
 
A rhyme in time can be sublime
A clever turn of phrase
But overuse can be obtuse
Every time it plays.

:cool:
 
I like ryhming, and I like hearing it

and I'll use whatever kind of ryhmes I can get away with. It does just go naturally with singing.
I am delighted with hip-hop as I have heard the best and most imaginative rhyming ever from the most surprising artists.

Masculine, feminine, allitiration (not sure if that's technically rhyming or not).
Rhyme at the end of a line, the middle, whatever, it's all good.

But when something doesn't rhyme quite right, or makes me wince, I always think of these lines from 'On Top Of Old Smokey'

A thief he will rob you, of all that you have,
but a false-hearted lover will lead you to the grave.

That's one hell of an accent to make that rhyme!
 
Eric,The rhyme is in "have" and "grave".. its a minor accent rhyme..The rhyme is in the" V" sound...Im just learning these things now.. its amazing how many different ways there are to get a lyric to flow...Perfect rhyme are great if you want to accent a phrase..I've got so many things to learn..But thats the craft of it all..just like playing a guitar...playing the words...




Don

Woobie doobie shoo bop..Nonsense syllables...Man they got a name for eveything...LOL
 
I was thinking about rhyming structures in the car today and I realized that you can use it to draw relationships between different ideas within the lyrics. Things that the listener might not automatically relate to each other can be related through rhym.

I've also noticed that in songs where there is a consistent rhym structure, breaking the pattern adds emphasis. Fun stuff to play around with.

Chris
 
here's orestes by APC. There isnt any apparent rhyming but it flows perfect on the song. How did they do that??

Metaphor for a missing moment
Pull me into your perfect circle

One womb
One shape
One resolve

Liberate this will
To release us all

Gotta cut away, clear away
Snip away and sever this
Umbilical residue that's
Keeping me from killing you

And from pulling you down with me here
I can almost hear you scream

Give me
One more medicated peaceful moment
One more medicated peaceful moment

And I don't wanna feel this overwhelming
Hostility
Because I don't wanna feel this overwhelming
Hostility
 
Anyone remember....

Colour My World by Chicago?
I was trying to think of songs which had weird rhymn structure for this thread when I thought of it.....
If I remember it correctly though....it is all prose....no rhymn at all that I can remember....
I am gonna have to look up the lyric....

Still, I always thought that it flowed well...
Especially when slow-dancin' at the Jr. high dance....ya know?:D
 
well......

As time goes on,
I realize
Just what you mean
To me
And now,
Now that you're near,
Promise your love
That I've waited to share
And dreams
Of our moments together
Color my world with hope of loving you



Near and share have the same soft "r" sound ....
Perhaps this is what tied it together??
 
Web...Well it alooks like repetion of word and syllable..First 2 lines..9 syllables each...Rep. of the word "one"..Rep. of the word "away" and the rep. is always 3x..Also Here and Hear..its a "Homophone" {sound the same different meaning}...So there is a meter of word but you gotta look for it..This is why it flows even though there is no obvious ryhme device...I'm sure there are more patterns to this lyric..These were the patterns that I saw first...



Don
 
Joe ...Go Pats!!!!!!The rhyming pattern on Color.."time"/"realise"..The I sound..."mean"/Me...The E sound..Homophone.."you'er/your...And the "near"/"share" you already mentioned....Interesting how if you look at the "and dreams" line it ties the two thoughts together..Share ..dreams./.of dreams..nice following line that links then becomes the leading line..cool device that my old singer used on her stuff{part of her style}...There is a book by Sheila Davis called the "craft of lyric writeing" it has a section on rhyme that is very useful....You may not agree with everything she says but still the mechanics of rhyming are the mechanics of rhyming..

Don


Also the "perfect" rhyme near/share give the lines their lyrical weight....{this is how they made those words stand out}..because its the only perfect rhyme there.....
 
Hey Don,

I think I understand now....
This is what you were talkin' about....isn't it?


and...
Go Patriots!! :D
 
Yup...I wish I had payed attention in school..LOL

Don
 
blimey help a rhyming lymey

To complicated for me lads I think Ill stick to moon in june.

FK
 
I make an attempt to rhyme all my songs.
Ditto Queue's post. I use that bit of software also and several other sources for rhyming, being hard copy books.
So far, I've not written a song that doesn't rhyme.

When I read the lryics of a song that doesn't rhyme, I feel like I'm being dangled on a string, just above the water.
Something is missing to me when a song doesn't rhyme. Something doesn't fit.
Rhyming tends to close the gaps, bringing focus on a particular thing. Like Chris said, forms a relationship in some cases.

I don't know the correct names of the types of rhyming, but they are something like;
'Exact'. A sample would be,
Could, would.
And 'Associative'.
An example would be,
can, understand.

I try to use both kinds as it adds some new avenues and rounds off some of the rough edges.

There are a few songs I've heard that don't rhyme each line, and have succeeded.
The only one that comes to mind right now is,

'Gentle On My Mind' by John Hartford. Most people relate to Glen Campbell as the recording artist.

Here it is for those not familar with it's structure and rhyming patteren, or lack of.



It's knowin' that your door is always open and your path is free to walk.
That makes me tends leave my sleeping bag rolled up and stashed behind your couch.
And it's knowin' I'm not shackled by forgotten words and bonds and the ink stains that have dried up on some line.
That keep you in the backroads by the rivers of the memory that
keeps you ever gentle on my mind.

It's not clinging to the rocks and ivy planted on their columns now that bind me.
Or something that somebody said because the thought we fit together walking.
And it's knowing that the world will not be cursing or forgiving when I walk along some railroad track and find.
That your moving on my backroads by the rivers of my memory and for hours your just gentle on my mind.

Though the wheat fields and the clothes lines and junkyards and the highways come between us.
And some other woman crying to her mother 'cause she turned and I was gone.
I still might run in silence, tears of joy might stain my face and the summer sun might burn me till I'm blind.
But not to where I can not see you walkin' on the backroads by the rivers flowing gentle on my mind.

I dip my cup of soup back from a gurgling crackling cauldron in some train yard.
My beards a roughening coal pile and my dirty hat pulled low across my face.
With cupped hands around the tin can I pretend I hold you to my breast and find.
That your waving from the backroads by the rivers of my memory ever smiling ever gentle on my mind.



Two words in each verse.
In my opinion the lyrics are so well defined and able to project the images as the song is sung, that I don't even notice the lack of rhyming.
But the two rhyming words in each verse does bind the verse together, making a comfortable closing.

Another reason it may work with a minimum of rhyming is the structure of the song.
AAAA.

In reference to my above statement about feeling like I'm being left dangling because the lack of rhyming lyrics as I read the them:
In all fairness, I must say that Gentle On My Mind is the only full non-rhyming song I know of that I have not read it's lyrics prior to hearing the song.
Possibly hearing the song first has a bearing on my opinion. I'm not sure.
I've heard other non-rhyming songs after I've read them, and I tend to focus, to my dismay, on the structure, lead and lack of rythmatic rhyming of the song in it's relationship with the music.

Anyway, I rhyme mine because I feel I lack the talent of writers like John Hartford. But I'm gonna try one some day.
 
Eric J, you reminded me of an interview with Randy Newman I read. He was discussing the relative importance of "proper" songwriting, and he mentioned talking to Stephen Sondheim (I believe). Randy said something to the effect of "I didn't use perfect rhyme in such-and-such song. I hope you don't mind." Sondheim replied, "I do mind," to which Newman replied, "Yeah, I know." Point? I tend to side with guys like Newman who will take liberties with rhyming if it makes the song work. Perfect rhyme can be okay, but it can be predictable to a fault.

I like assonance, consonance, and alliteration. It's great when you hear it done well, but it's easy to get carried away with it. But have you ever come up with some lines, or even a whole verse or song, that had great bits of any of these elements but that were totally subconscious or unconscious in the making? Those are the times that I say to myself, "This song-writing thing we do is *very* cool!"

Wow, I'm just rambling on. Sorry for the rant :rolleyes:

BTW, if anyone is interested, the Newman interview was in a book titled Songwriters on Songwriting. Compiled by Paul Zollo; he interviews tons of biggies, including Dylan, Simon, Cohen, Sammy Kahn, Zappa, and R.E.M. A little something for everyone.
 
sometimes I rhyme every 1st line and alternate the rhyme on the second line
example:
(chorus of a country song i wrote)
the theme of the song is the dudes old lady kicked him out and asked "are you gonna be alright?"



"i made an overnight migration,"
" to the honky tonk scene"
"im back in circulation"
"and ain't forgot a thing"
"if its any consilation"
"honey, im gonna do just fine"
" with a new appreciation"
"for the women and the wine"
 
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