Reverb and depth

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SergeD

SergeD

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Hi,

I enjoy using Sir to enhance my orchestral (Strings,Woodwinds,Brass,Percussion) attempts.

Now my goal is to create the feeling of depth among those instruments when you listen to them on a stage.

I tried different predalay, delay, dry/wet settings without any improvement. It's hard to find documentation on the Web with clear examples which could be possible to start from.

Anybody knows a useful link ?

Thanks,

SergeD
 
Assuming that you're working from a live recording...

For the Conductor's perspective, higher early reflections, lower pre-delay.

From the audience's perspective, lower ER, higher PDLY (100ms+).

Personally, I've never had a lot of luck with SIR... I like it, and I like what it's all about. I've always just had an easier time working with DreamVerb or something...

Anyway, back to the verb... If you haven't tried this (I did a lengthly RecTech article on this about 10 years ago when most of the world was analog and it's wonderful for classical):

Dial in a nice sounding verb -- Put a compressor plug after it -- set the ratio to 6:1 or so -- Play a louder passage and bring the threshold down until the gain reduction is at -4 to -6 ish -- Play a softer passage and set the reverb level -- Note that there should be no gain reduction during soft passages -- Tweak to taste.

What this will do is imitate what your ears will do in a concert hall. On the louder passages, the compressor will bring the verb level down. On the softer passages, the verb will be allowed to rise and open up (just like your ears will). It also minimizes the whole "not enough level to get a good verb sound" as the level going to the verb will be set by the SOFT passages. The verb will be spacious and airy for soft areas, and move out of the way a bit to make room for the loud. Obviously, it shines like a diamond on songs with a cold stop at the end, AND it automatically gives depth to a song with a slow fade at the end (as the apparent distance increases as the volume decreases).

This is all in the tweaks - Sometimes fast attack & release work best, sometimes painfully slow sounds better. Sometimes 4:1, sometimes straight limiting.

However, as I almost always say, once you get the perfect setting, back off on it a little. You don't want the verb "pumping" too much (although it sure can be used as a cool effect!), so feel free to "play it safe" a bit.

The over-use of verb being one of the most "rookie" sounding mistakes out there, this also minimizes that problem. If you have clients that say they need "more verb" this is a nice way to tame it a little. They get their verb, you get to keep your reputation.

If I can find the article, I'll repost it on my site (with the publisher's permission, of course)...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
Thanks MM,

I use samples with Gigatudio for recording. The goal effect is to back away brass on the virtual stage and keep strings close to the listener. This the depth I'm talking about.

SergeD
 
Yo Serge-ing-forward:}

Reverb is a type of ambience. Ambience is like how does it sound? Rich/thin/thick/boomy/etc.

There are VERY few singers who record without some type of reverb -- it makes the voice sound RICH and FULL and kind of powerful.

That's why I always put reverb in my talent's cans when they do vocals -- makes them feel POWERFUL, but if you sing off-key, well, it enhances the OFF-KEY.

When you mix, your ears determine how much "ambience" is needed to do the job. That is why some engineers make a bunch of money because their EARS are very keen and they can make the talent HAPPY, as the talent pays the bills -- right up from the top talent to those who just start out.

So, reverb is a subject of study and we all must study to understand it. But, it's the EARS that decide, "I like it that way."

[Good title for a song?]

For me, I think the Yamaha reverbs are about the best; however, I'm sure others like other types/brands. Again, it's the EARS of the engineer/recorder/home-person/studio/etc.

So, have fun. Do a song and try different reverbs for a couple of hours of mixing time, maybe even longer.

It's so much fun to record and to get a decent cut once in a while.

Green Hornet

:D ;) :p :cool:
 
Green Hornet,

So, reverb is a subject of study and we all must study to understand it. But, it's the EARS that decide, "I like it that way."

I'm affraid you're right. I have not yet the science but fortunatly my ears are my best friends.

SergeD
 
Thanks for the link I already have it but now decided to look in more seriously,

SergeD
 
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