Repro head illiterate.....or HOW TO BE A COMPLETE MORON.

  • Thread starter Thread starter RICK FITZPATRICK
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RICK FITZPATRICK

RICK FITZPATRICK

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Hello fellow analog fans......

I read a reply in one of the analog/digital "discussions", that emphasized the use of the "repro" head, for setting mics, monitoring, etc. Having almost non existant exposure to professional studio techniques and equipment, I remember when I became intrigued with this concept, although I "think" I understand. Let me explain.

From the time I first became interested in recording, I was under the impression(I think I read about it 20 or so years ago) that the only TRUE monitoring
scenario, "while recording", would be to monitor right off the tape. How else would you truely know what it was sounding like unless you recorded the whole song, and then played it back, as we all know the tape itself "influences" the sonics of the recording. But then its too late.
Ok, I said to myself, "IF....professional monitoring technique MEANS monitoring from the tape itself.....that implys that the signal must be DELAYED........ :eek: Now this may be right or wrong, but that is the POINT.
Having never really reached that point, all of a sudden I began to wonder if indeed my interpretation was "correct" afterall. Hence this thread. Let me explain further.
Right or wrong, in my amateur thinking, this implied that in order to monitor off of the tape, a delay would indeed occur, as there has to be a small distance between the record head and....what I now think...is the "REPRO" head, which translates into a time gap between the "live sound" and my ears hearing the "recorded" sound. Ohhhhhhhhhh shit. That implys a SOUND PROOF monitoring environment, not to mention owning a recorder that has this ability. .......20 years go by trying to get to that point........First, purchase the machines. No problem.....only takes 10 years to collect :rolleyes: first an 80-8, then an MSR-16. Then all the rest of the crap....mixers, mics, amps, etc etc etc etc...... "the small stuff"......WHICH IS NEVER FUCKING ENDING.... :eek: :D ...anyway, you know what I'm saying.
THEN......midi..........ARGGGGGRRRRR.......then..computers....then forums such as this....... then.....ahem, digital "mistakes", then analog "enlightenment "synch enlighthen ....get MIDIZER........get another MSR...... ......not to mention trying to set up studio after studio after studio....
trying to set up this scenario.....all the time going through learning curve after learning curve, never really seeing the "light at the end of the fucking tunnel :mad::D .......not to fucking mention, during which time I've spent "lifetimes" learning how NOT to build a studio, how NOT to become an acoustician, how NOT to study physics, how NOT to buy a home for a studio, how NOT to become an engineer, how NOT to ground your electrical
system.....etc etc the fucking list goes on and on....... :( .....I know one thing, this hobby is the damndest thing ever invented by man :D At the same time.....I wouldn't trade it for chasing a white ball around a golf course for anything......ha! Ok...all this while, trying to overcome the "time delay delima", which of course means building a control room seperated from the live room by way of sound "attenuated" construction.....
Sooooooooooooo.....time goes by, I'm at the point of considering a golf course.....fuck.....then it hits me. Somewhere along the line, I remember reading that the MSR's are only a 2 head machine........what the fuck does that imply.......OH FUCK.......REPRO HEAD MONITORING.......crap....have I been WRONG all this time :eek: ARRGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
(#$%^%*&(*(*&*&%$@@@!^***#$%^%%%&@@@@*#^&@)*&

And the MSR's don't even have a "repro head". FUCK..........what have I done..??????????




.......PUUULEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE TELL ME I HAVEN'T WASTED MY ENTIRE LIFE CHASING THIS PREPOSTEROUS CONCEPT....... :eek: :confused: :eek: :mad: :confused: :rolleyes:

fitZ :D
 
.......PUUULEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE TELL ME I HAVEN'T WASTED MY ENTIRE LIFE CHASING THIS PREPOSTEROUS CONCEPT.......

You haven't, Rick.

You might have wasted a few brain cells writing the post about it but that's about it.

Repro head live monitoring is for egg-head pussies.

Don't sweat it, Bro.

Cheers! :)
 
Repro head live monitoring is for egg-head pussies.

Hahahahahahahahaha! Still.......is the concept true, or not. I don't understand.........do they or don't they do this in pro studios? And at the same time, can YOU hear the difference between monitoring off the board or the tape? Ghost, I won't worry about it anymore, but I AM wondering how you would do this on an MSR......there is something about it in the manual, but I haven't got it handy. Some kinda button for sending the signal back from the recorder to the mixer as you record....but I don't remember what it said. I don't think its the same thing though. Anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence.......and your positive attitude. I DO appreciate it mucho buddy.

fitZ
 
Rick,

You can't do confidence monitoring on an MSR series deck from TASCAM.

It's only two heads so, don't worry about it.

The whole idea of it is only practical when you have a 3 head deck and have a separate control room with engineer monitoring the talent playing elsewhere in the studio in isolation.

This might be a nice thing to do in rehearsal only so that if you have deck that you are not at all sure of how it will sound, can tweak to eq and such to get a more desired result coming out on tape but, when it comes time to actually overdub, you must work off of the sync head anyway so, if you really want the benefit of repro monitoring, just do a few test recordings first and play with the eq until you get familiar with how your deck will twist the sound around.

For any home recording enthusiast working by themselves, this is an un-do-able process as you could never play your part properly and hear the delay without it throwing you completely off of your timing.

After you think about it a bit more, perhaps it will start to make some sense to you.

Bottom line;

Know your equipment and how it sounds and works and you're ahead of the game.

Cheers! :)
 
Actually Sony invented a head, which allows the user to hear several milliseconds into the future. Very expensive and only available to inhabitants of the other earth that exists on the opposite side of the sun.
 
monty said:
Actually Sony invented a head, which allows the user to hear several milliseconds into the future. Very expensive and only available to inhabitants of the other earth that exists on the opposite side of the sun.
Sony.

The one and only.

:D
 
Ghost said it.

The MSR series is a 2-head design, so the point is moot. The Repro & Sync head is one and the same.

On point I didn't see, (forgive me, 'cause I skimmed), is that on the latest vintage of Tascam 3-head decks, such as the 38/34/34B/22-4/22-2, the Sync and Repro heads are exactly the same part, same part number, same supporting electronics, and same frequency response,... so again, the point is moot.

I believe the "Repro-head monitoring" issue was most relevant on older decks, and non-Tascam decks, where the Repro head and Sync head were distinctly two different heads, with two distinctly different frequency responses,... a subject which covers a great many vintage pro decks, other than the decks mentioned above.

To you & me, it's not an issue, but to those with older Sony's, Scully's, MCI's, and probably Studers,... ancient high-end decks like that,... and OLDER Tascams, like the 3440 and 80-8,... it is an issue.

All that verbage,... and the point's still moot.

/DA
 
a subject which covers a great many vintage pro decks, other than the decks mentioned above.

Well, that lets me off the hook now doesn't it. :D Funny how one little piece of information can govern many decisions for 20 years and then turn out to be nothing. Oh well, time to move on. Lets see, where did I put my trusty ole 601. :p

All that verbage,... and the point's still moot.
Hmmmmm, Verbosity is not my only charchter flaw. Not everyone is as concise as yourself. Of course, your collection of four of everything Tascam makes might seem a little wierd to some people too.:p (just teasing you Dave)

And don't believe everything Mixerman says
.

Hello Hans, from the replys on his column, you'd think he was a sonic Jehova. But I'm so far removed from his world that it doesn't matter anyway. I stopped visiting PSW long time ago. Seems like the pro's that visit there are trapped in ivory towers lined with OC703. Besides, I hold contempt for intellectual snobbery. Especially when you consider the word "engineer" attatched to thier professional job title, compared to "Structual Engineer", is pure blastphemy in my book. There is NO Audio "Engineer" listed in the "professions" codes, requires NO exam for licensing whatsoever, and anyone can call themself an "audio engineer", regardess if they know a diode from a phone plug. Personally, the term is in the same league with "Sanitary Engineer", which actually may be a step up the cognative ladder. In regards to subjective opinion, holding ANY "audio engineers" word as sonic law is a lesson in futility, as a quick listen to contemporary radio pretty much illustrates it is subject to change at the whim of a group of 13 year old female listeners or hiphop sonic expression. :rolleyes:
Thats NOT to say I don't respect the individual and collective contributions that experienced and creative audio engineers give to the recording world. Its
the inflated egos that I have a problem with. Especially the ones that think the world would stop turning should thier word not be taken as doctrine. A quick scan of a typical Mixerman thread will rest my case. Thanks for the tip just the same.

fitZ
 
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