Reference tracks while mixing (Unmastered)

[chamelious]

I've pulled tracks into Reaper before to compare them to what im mixing on, but obviously commercial mixes have been mastered.

Does anyone have/know where i could get any unmastered commercial music, especially/rock metal?

Or, opinions on this practise? To be honest the main problem i have with my recordings is separation, stuff muddying together too much. I suspect i need to better learn my EQ tools

 

[Greg_L]

There's nothing at all wrong with comparing your stuff to commerical stuff for reference, but keep in mind that you're just some shmoe recording at home and don't have the experience, gear, or budget to match a pro commerical release. There's nothing wrong with trying, just don't jump off a bridge if you don't get there.

 

[tonesponge]

the main problem i have with my recordings is separation, stuff muddying together too much. I suspect i need to better learn my EQ tools

Side chain compression to duck one part under another is one way to address this problem.

I too am interested in info about where to get reference tracks.

 

[chamelious]

There's nothing at all wrong with comparing your stuff to commerical stuff for reference, but keep in mind that you're just some shmoe recording at home and don't have the experience, gear, or budget to match a pro commerical release. There's nothing wrong with trying, just don't jump off a bridge if you don't get there.

Absolutely I understand and agree. Just sometimes i find myself adjusting EQ and compression and whatnot and find it hard to keep track of what i'm aiming for or what sounds "good".

I'm more interested in hearing things like apparent relative volume levels between instruments, stereo separation, etc rather than tonal qualitys.

 

[chamelious]

Side chain compression to duck one part under another is one way to address this problem.

I too am interested in info about where to get reference tracks.

I've never tried this but as i understand it its main usage is with kick/bass and thats not usually somewhere i have trouble with.

 

[Greg_L]

Absolutely I understand and agree. Just sometimes i find myself adjusting EQ and compression and whatnot and find it hard to keep track of what i'm aiming for or what sounds "good".

I'm more interested in hearing things like apparent relative volume levels between instruments, stereo separation, etc rather than tonal qualitys.

Maybe start with better sounds. Your kind of music should be pretty easy to do.

 

[chamelious]

Maybe start with better sounds. Your kind of music should be pretty easy to do.

"easy to to" is both relative and hugely subjective. +You're judging my bands sound on 2 songs out of 12 or 13

 

[Greg_L]

"easy to to" is both relative and hugely subjective. +You're judging my bands sound on 2 songs out of 12 or 13

I'm not "judging" at all. That wasn't a knock. You play rock music right? Drums, bass, distorted guitars and maybe a few synths, right? Don't overthink it. It's not like you're dealing with an orchestra and shit.

 

[chamelious]

It really depends on what you want to do and where your standards lie. It sounds simple when you lay it out like that but the reality is different as i'm sure you're aware, especially when you're using budget gear and don't have much skill

 

[DrewPeterson7]

I've pulled tracks into Reaper before to compare them to what im mixing on, but obviously commercial mixes have been mastered.

Does anyone have/know where i could get any unmastered commercial music, especially/rock metal?

Or, opinions on this practise? To be honest the main problem i have with my recordings is separation, stuff muddying together too much. I suspect i need to better learn my EQ tools

Honestly, you can learn a ton from critical listening to even mastered music. Try to find something where either there's an unaccompanied guitar intro or a section where the guitars drop out and it's just bass, etc, and really hone in on why your tracks sound different than a pro's in those couple moments when something really IS isolated.

Not that I hold these guys up as a pinnacle of audio quality, but the unaccompanied guitar intro on the opener of Seether's Karma and Effect convinced me a huge part of the problem with clarity I was having in my mixes was I was tracking my guitars WAY too dark and bassy. Modern hard rock/metal rhythm is almost shockingly bright, and a couple mic position tweaks later and I had a much better bass/guitar mix going on.

Hell, if you can get a mix to sound nearly as good as a "pro" album unmastered, then once you have it mastered it should be that much better.

 

[Greg_L]

Modern hard rock/metal rhythm is almost shockingly bright, .

This is true. Modern rock shit is crazy bright. Not necessarily bad bright, but still very bright, and way guitar heavy. Long gone are the days of audible bass lines and kicks with body.

 

[RAMI]

Maybe start with better sounds.

Don't take that as harsh, and remember who it's coming from. Regardless of what some people think of Greg's approach, he doesn't waste time sissifying up something that can be said in 5 words.

The point is, it really comes down to getting good sounds/tracks right from the get go. You should be able to put up the faders, adjust the volumes and panning for about 23.8 seconds, and have a mix that's 90% "there". EQ, compressors, side-chaining, wowifying, etc.....definitely put the finishing touches on a mix, but you shouldn't NEED them just to get "separation". I've never had to side-chain a kik or bass or anything else to get my kik and bass to sound good together. I'm not implying my mixes or mixing technique is anything anyone should set as a goal . I'm just saying that if you HAVE to resort to these things just to get things to sit well before you start mixing, then your source tracks themselves are the problem.

 

[Greg_L]

Right. I've also never had a need for side chaining the kick and bass. I think I get pretty good seperation and definition between the two. It's easy when you mix them in loud - like they're supposed to be.

 

[tonesponge]

I've never tried this but as i understand it its main usage is with kick/bass and thats not usually somewhere i have trouble with.

I've used side chain compression to duck lead guitar under vocals, and liked the results.

Choice of sources should avoid most conflicts, as others have said.

I hear high, low, and band pass filters are commonly used on some parts to fit those parts together by eliminating spectral overlap. I haven't tried it myself yet. Just focused on source choice, and using ducking when I run into a problem has worked so far. So that's all I can offer.