Reel to Reel "output" question

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kylemac

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Gentlemen,

I have three reel to reel machines for listening to music only... no recording.

My first was a Sony tc-377, which I love. However, I have been having minor troubles with it, so I wanted to find a more reliable deck. I purchased a Akai "surround sound" deck, but the sound is horrible... same for the Philips n4504.

However, it's not the decks themselves, rather the decks' output levels seem too high. My Sony has a output dial I can control to make the levels more warm on my 1990s-era receiver. Even the pre-recorded tapes seem as if they are recorded to loud on the Akai and Philips.

Any ideas how to correct this? I imagine there must be something out there to help better match my R2R to my specific receiver.

Kyle
 
What inputs are you using on the receiver? My Philips N4504 has outstanding performance-- better at 7.5ips than any of the TEACs I worked on had at 15ips when I worked there in the early 1980's. The Philips' line-out level was actually slightly lower than the TEACs'. Is it possible someone did a very bad job of aligning yours?
 
Really?

Wil816 said:
My Philips N4504 has outstanding performance-- better at 7.5ips than any of the TEACs I worked on had at 15ips when I worked there in the early 1980's.
Click to expand...
Wil816, Is it so? :confused:
I am just trying to clearly understand what you are saying.
Do you mean that the performance on your Philips N4504 at 7.5ips as we speak is better than performance on all TEAC recorderers at 15ips used to be 20-some years ago when you worked with them?
Sorry for misunderstanding if so.
*************
kylemac, which receiver do you use? As Wil816 asked - what input?. Do you have/had any similar problems with other tape-players and the receiver you use in the same set-up. Have you tried different receiver/amp with the tape player that seems to have problem(s) (or, say - tape player that seems to introduce problem(s) to your selup) ?
/respects
 
output question

Guys,

I'm using a Sony str-de135 purched in the late 1990s. It's not a bad receiver...

I have another newer receiver downstairs I could try...

To reiterate, the problem lies in the output level into the receiver. It sounds overamplified or recorded too high -- not good quality at all. However, when I listen through the r2r's headphone jack, it sounds fine.

I am using standard RCA collection jacks routed through a pioneer equalizer and into my receiver. The Sony is the only one that sounds good because the "output" dial on the side allows me to match the r2r's output to my receiver. The other r2rs do not have this ability, thus the horrible output.

Is there an internal switch or dial on my Akai or Philips, or do I need something for my receiver?

Kyle
 
You'd have to assume that...

there's probably an internal "Output Level" adjustment in the Sony and Philips. :eek: ;)
 
kylemac said:
I am using standard RCA collection jacks routed through a pioneer equalizer and into my receiver.
Click to expand...
Could you be boosting the level with the equalizer? You might have had your old tape deck turned down to compensate for the boost you were giving the signal with the equalizer. Now that you don't have that output control, you have run into a gain staging problem.
Just a thought.
 
my moneys on jay and the EQ.... take it out of the system and try again...
 
It sounds to me like your receiver is boosting the signal, as it would for a turntable with no built-in pre-amp.

See if there's a switch on the back of your receiver to turn off any pre-amp.

-MD
 
Guys,

I took the sony off and put on the philips. I also removed the philips from the eq.

It worked... no more distortion.

However, now I have a deck without eq, which sort of stinks. Any ideas how to reduce the r2r's output without distorting the sound through the eq?

I guess I can live with it. It doesn't sound that bad. Just flatter than I'm used to.

Thanks to all who helped -- but if you have anymore suggestions, let's have em.

Kyle
 
kylemac said:
I guess I can live with it. It doesn't sound that bad. Just flatter than I'm used to.
Kyle
Click to expand...

and what's wrong with flat... unless we're talking bout pitch...

flat response is the standard.... you using the smiley-face curve??? :eek:
 
kylemac said:
I am using standard RCA collection jacks routed through a pioneer equalizer and into my receiver.
Click to expand...

AARRGGH!

We didn't know about the EQ in the first post.

I'm with Farview on the EQ.

What model EQ is it? Does it have any input/output attenuation buttons or controls besides the sliders? Does it sound the same with bypass button engaged (if it has one)? Try setting all EQ sliders to center position and move sliders down rather than up to shape the sound.

The inputs you’re using on the receiver don’t say “Phono” or “RIAA” do they? :eek: :)
 
Sorry about the eq thing... totally important detail that I forgot about...

It's a 7-band pioneer graphic equalizer (gr-470) and I've tried compensating for the distortion using it, but to no avail.

And no, there is no output dial on the eq.

I am putting the reel to reel through my md/tape input on the receiver... not the phono input (doesn't even have one).

It's obviously the eq causing the distortion... was hoping there was a way to keep the richer sound of the eq. I was not using a smiley face pattern. I had it programmed to make the sony 377 sound even better.

Kyle
 
kylemac said:
Guys,

However, now I have a deck without eq, which sort of stinks. Any ideas how to reduce the r2r's output without distorting the sound through the eq?
Click to expand...
The last time I used an EQ with a receiver, I had it hooked up so that when i hit 'tape monitor' I heard the EQ. I'm a little fuzzy on how that worked, but I think you hook the record out of the receiver to the EQ and the output of the EQ to one of the tape inputs. When you monitored that tape input, you heard the EQ no matter what you were listening to (tape, CD radio, etc...) That might get rid of your gain staging problem, as long as you aren't adding so much gain with the EQ that it distorts the input.
 
My Philips N4504 has outstanding performance-- better at 7.5ips than any of the TEACs I worked on had at 15ips when I worked there in the early 1980's.
Click to expand...
Wil816, Is it so?
I am just trying to clearly understand what you are saying.
Do you mean that the performance on your Philips N4504 at 7.5ips as we speak is better than performance on all TEAC recorderers at 15ips used to be 20-some years ago when you worked with them?
Sorry for misunderstanding if so.
Click to expand...
Right. My friend with a TEAC 3340 was extremely impressed (and a bit jealous) with the Philips' performance too. At 7.5ips, the -3dB point in the frequency response was 26kHz at 0VU record level, it had an excellent dynamic noise limiting (single-ended noise reduction) that gave it a minimum S/N ratio of 72dB, and the result when recording and playing back a 1kHz square wave at 0VU was the most faithful I've ever seen on a tape recorder. I could kick myself for throwing out a brochure for the Ampex ATR-100, which also showed its square wave response at 30ips and it was no better than the Philips'. The Philips' specified frequency response high end at 3.75ips (although I don't remember testing it myself at that speed) was 20kHz. I cannot claim to have measured everything, like the wow & flutter (which were inaudible anyway, as it should be on any decent machine) and THD; but it really was a great performer for not being a professional machine.
 
I guess this must be due, to a large extent, to the heads / electronics of the Philips.
 
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