Reel 2 Reel for Mastering What to do?

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theblackBay

theblackBay

Mean average best idiot..
I am Analog Ignorant but don't punish me yet:

I have a question i'm needing a R2R for mastering my objective is to go out of the digital into R2R and back any advice for a first timer in this domain:

the advice would be for a model or tape width:

I have found a TEAC A-3440 would that be ok or should i aim for something else?

i've also seen an AKAI 4000 DS Mk-I I for a resonable price but am i aming to low should i need something better the digital out is 32bit (f) in 44100 hz.

I know the tape speed is important but i'm really just saying that without knowing what it means.

Thank you for any help
 
oh

i only need one stereo track really does tha make a difference?
 
BlackBay,

Longish post, but here are some basics:

For mastering onto analog, you would, realistically, want: a 1/4-inch tape machine (that's the width of the tape you will be working with, and you seem to be looking at such machines, so that's fine.)

The machine should have the following:

2 tracks only. This means you record the entire width of the tape in one direction only, on 2 tracks, which is stereo. This gives you the highest quality for your purposes. For that reason, forget the 3440. It has 4 tracks which you don't need, and because there are 4, you get lesser quality.

The machine should record at 15 inches per second for optimum sound. You can find slower (and occationally faster), but 15 is for your quality purposes 'the speed'.

With 15 Inches per second in mind, the machine should also be able to take 10.5-inch diameter reels (the 'big reels'.) At 15 Ips, you will get 30mins or so on a 10.5inch reel.

DO NOT trade longer recording time (i.e. slower maximum speed) for lesser quality. 30mins per reel may not seem like a lot, but you get what you pay for. 30mins is plenty to master several songs. If you want, you can always re-use.

A note on tape: DO NOT buy used tape on FleaBay. You have no idea of what you will wind up with.
There is a whole slew of older Ampex-brand tapes that have severe problems (called Sticky-Shed) which basically render them useless, and can absolutely gum up your machine in the process.
There is good new tape stock to be had, so no need to mess with those.

Machines (you ask the seller if they are 2-track and 15ips if it doesn't say, because some come in many variations.)
Here are some common 2-track models that would serve your purpose:

Tascam 32. There is a higher-grade machine called the BR-20; depends on the pricing on EBay.

Otari 5050, preferably Mark 3 or higher (the model should indicate which it is.)

Revox B77. It may be tough to find affordably in the 2-track, 15ips version, but I wanted just to mention it since it is out there.

Also, don't forget the home machines.
Under "Reel to Reel Machines" on EBay you will also find older consumer machines from the mid-70es that sometimes feature 2 tracks, 15ips, and take big reels.
Teac, Sony and Pioneer are some examples.

In all cases, shop carefully. You will be dealing with an aging, mechanical device. Make sure the seller has maintained it and that you won't have to buy (especially) new rubber rollers or belts as soon as you get the machine.
Ask questions. If need be, ask here what to ask.

There is more to add, but that's good start. I am sure you will have more things you want to know, and if you make the jump, you will want some pointers on maintenance and such.
Feel free to show us a listing if you find a machine that seems appropriate.

Good luck with it all,

Best,
C.
 
Wow cosmic Thanks

here i was loosing faith in the old online forum community..

wow thanks for the great and detailed answer you analog people are much nicer than the digital people .. i find you more warm and mixed better (joke sorry)

that has helped me so much.. my confusion was i guess 1/2" tape seemed better for me but then in my research i kept seeing 4 Track and 8 Track in relation to 1/2" tape.

And was thinking the very same thing can record 1 Stereo Track on a 1/2" tape over the top of the "tape space" where the other tracks are.. you have answered that for me.

The Akia I mentioned does not reach the 15 speed you mentioned so you have already helped me so much.

I'm ditigital born an bread but I know a good sound when I hear it and the best still comes from analog.

I'll be back thanks again.
 
Yeah, Cosmic really did lay it out nicely. Great info indeed. But as he said, that's just a good start so be sure to ask questions. The recorders aren't going anywhere, so be patient. Oh and yeah, be sure to read this very carefully:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=229729&highlight=packing

I'm hoping to post an update soon, TBA.

Be on the lookout for a local TASCAM 22-2, 32, 42, 52 and BR-20. Otari MX5050 recorders are also superb. Expect minor servicing but as long as heads are good and the recorder functions fine, you're ok.
 
Excited!

I have taken your advice and have found an Otari MX5050 BFHD

Does this do the 15ips need for the higher resolutions?

I can even get the serial number if you like.

Thanks i'll keep researching.
 
Are you sure that's the right Otari model # (the "BFHD" part) ? Serial number won't help identify the machines' features.
 
Ok im a scitz BR-20

I've researched more and discovered the Tascam BR-20 as you said that's the one dude.

I have to find one now that model has the balanced +4dbm inputs and outputs were as i experianced some wierd information about the Otari outputs..

this BR-20 would be perfect for me but i have no idea of the cost maybe this is going to be one of those more long term goals LOL.

because i'd really rather nothing than get the wrong equpment.

http://www.tascam.com/Products/BR-20.html

I found that info.

Also i have found the Tascam 322 which is still 1/4 inch tape? in the traditional type cassette but i'm guessing here that the difference is going to be that Tape speed is it not?

http://www.tascam.com/Products/322.html

thanks.
 
The 322 is a cassette deck. You want half track (2 track) open reel running at 15ips, for mastering, as Cosmic outlined.
 
I'm in Australia

Down under...

here is the link to he Otari i found...

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130107030958#description

here is the Q and A from a potential buyer:

Q: Hi John, Could you please tell me what the full nodel number is - on the nomenclature plate on the back - and the serial number. Have you any documentation,...more 01-May-07

A: Hi Brian, MX5050 BFHD Serial 18303003B. AC240V 50/60Hz 100W. No paperwork found.
 
hey cjacek

Thanks for all this help......

i'll share any secrets with you guys but they are all digital a digital world is the world of being creative enough to compensate for the loss from a pure analog system.

Any idea on the costs of a BR-20 just rough just so i know if it's even within my scope?

Euro or US or pound dosen't matter.

I just know it's going to be expensive.
 
Ok, this unit may be totally beat up. No way to know without looking at heads and tape path. There really is no way to know of the unit's true condition by way of the poor picts and the seller's lack of knowledge. The only good point is that it's potentially a local pickup for you. I would pass on this one. Too many unknowns.
 
Here's something you may want to consider:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Revox-B77-Ma...ryZ15199QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Prior to doing anything else, ask the seller about condition of heads, how many hours on the machine (ask for a clear, closeup photo) and also details of the servicing, what was done by who, when etc.. ?

EDIT: Ok, I see he can't provide photo of heads in the Q & A but says they have a "small" amount of wear. Again, this is a bit risky.
 
I'm right there with you.

"The 322 is a cassette deck. You want half track (2 track) open reel running at 15ips, for mastering, as Cosmic outlined."

It seems like a dumb statement from me but here is where I’m at:

I have developed my Digital mixing and Mastering technic over some years where i can now produce a final master to match anything that Somy Rec Studio's can spew out or pretty much any other "major" label.

but......

the quality comes at a cost and that cost is a harshness at higher level in the playback stage...

I believe the "Majors" are running the digital masters through an analog Tape and getting that beautiful analogue compression on the final stage to stop that harshness.

all the other crap they (major studios) carry on with (too a degree) about compressors and EQ is just that Crap because I can reproduce that sound on a shoestring budget. by applying the (nothing special Waves) compression at the right stages.

so as far as the cassette goes I’d be willing to just experiment and see if my theory is correct... but that's as far as the cassette goes for me.. for the real stuff I’d need the product you advised.
 
There were several nice Revox machines, in the format we spoke about, which ended on eBay Australia. Also some TEAC, TASCAM and Otari recorders in the ended items. Keep an eye out for these.
 
Revox B77

Thanks for tha one I totally missed it:

I would be willing to travel there and look at the heads.. but i'll do some study on it first like the balanced input and outputs maybe.

see if there is any noise problems .. if i got something like this for a resonable price i'd be willing to spend money on it.

by Bro is pretty handy with electronics so maybe an option.
 
I will be patient

This one looks clapped out.
 
Yeah, always good to have someone close by who's good with electronics. Check for flat spots on heads and tape lifters, those things which go up and down depending if it's in play or stop / ff rew mode. Those need to be as smooth and round as possible, though a little ware is acceptable.
 
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