Recreating well known songs with lots of harmonies - The Carpenters

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rob aylestone

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We create quite a lot of well known songs as stage tracks - think click tracks, backing tracks - the things you use on stage. Tribute bands and 70's shows are common users of tracks and they tend to fall into two types. Tracks where there isn't a full compliment of singers and band members - sometimes for practical reasons. It could be a singer, and bass, keys, drums and guitar, but the songs they need to play need extra guitars, and strings, that kind of thing. The other type of requirement is where the tracks are used as 'emergency' tracks, where they come up on the desk but don't get used unless there's a problem. If you are playing bigger venues, what do you do when somebody has a sore throat, or cuts their finger, or the sax player has a split lip? Everyone plays to a click and if necessary, the sound op just raises a fader.

In this example, it's a Carpenters song, and if you are going to do Carpenters, the audience will expect to hear all those harmonies. Without them, the songs are not complete.

This video points out the critical features, how we record them and how they get used. The song is Close to You and there are over 20 harmony tracks. In this case, the main melody of the song won't ever be used, it's just a guide vocal for the rest.
 
I completely agree with your assessment of the Carpenter's vocal abilities. Some of my favorite music has been songs with great vocal harmonies, Carpenters (of course), CSNY, Beach Boys, Mamas and Papas, Eagles. It's one of the things that seems to be missing from so much modern music.

Nice job showing how something that sounds so simple can really be quite complex to create.
 
I am opposed to backing tracks used in performance. Some use is probably essential for keeping a whole band in time, where they all have in-ear monitors.
I went to see Gary Glitter perform 'A Slice Of Saturday Night'. There was a small band tucked behind some scenery, and the music was perfectly performed. Too perfect, in my opinion.. To be that good, they would have to be top session musicians, and therefore too expensive for the scale of the show. It had to be a recording, with the players just looking like a band.
 
The snag is that the audiences expect to hear the same kind of sound that they listen to on the commercial recordings, but budgets are tricky to make work. Use as a good example the Drifters. A band that has had a rolling membership since inception. Four guys. It's fiercely controlled and protected, and there are serious licencing deals. A pool of decent singers, all over the world. So well managed it's even a musical now. Your budget sets what you get. It could be the four guys and a totally tracks show, or you could have a huge compliment of real live musicians. Seats and ticket price set what can be afforded, in terms of performers. The band I was in for 15 years prided itself on doing Beach Boys songs with no tracks, totally live and the reality was we had a few songs that were thinner than they should have been because none of us had hands or mouths spare. They keys player still played his ancient M1 Korg because it let him do multiple sounds on keyboard splits and he had an up and down pedal to swap - almost continually in some songs. Clicks are horrible to use, but critical nowadays. I manage shows for all sorts of things and in shows tracks are essential - in fact the production company could have the same song in maybe 6 different shows at Christmas time, so every venue gets a set of tracks, and just knocks out the folk in the orchestra pit who are there. If, as happens occasionally, you suddenly lose a musician (think covid) the fader that says trumpet track, that is muted, can be unmuted very easily. Singers often get recorded at the early shows, and if two weeks later, lose their voices, they can mime for a couple of shows to recover.

Other uses we're involved in are the shows where the tracks also run lights and video via timecode. Dancers cannot do strenuous dance routines and sing at the same time. It sounds awful if they try, so you track them, and the audience see them, and hear them - much better product than a panting awful raspy noise.

Tracks also guarantee a good performance every show. Audiences don't hear bad ones. Of course, there is also considerable cheating going on. One big show I am aware of I have worked on many times and only just discovered the look-alike is NOT a sound-alike. The audience are hearing the vocals of the real, big name, but dead artist - he is miming 100%. revealed when the tracks computer threw a fit and the backup did not work. I heard the real voice as did everyone. Even more oddly, it turned out that the real live bass player on stage was playing - but only into the ears of the band. Contractually, for some songs, the audience heard the original bassline of the song. Legal stuff, and even though the sound operator could have shoved a fader, he did not and had to hear the song, bassless!

My feeling is that music should be live, unless live is not the best, in which case, tracks improve value for money and audience satisfaction. At the other end of the scale, my band supported a 70s chart act, who had negotiated to use our PA - he handed our sound op their Best Of CD. Nothing they played or sang was in what the audience heard. Guess how many complaints? Zero! There are even examples of big names who are a bit er, 'gone' - and one of the guys in the band is there to fill in their parts when they can't. if they forgot the words, they were sung in seamlessly, if their hands forgot what to play - same thing.

When I play in bands, with clicks, I hated it at first, but you sort of come around - however, it also makes things like vamping an intro while somebody speaks very difficult.

These are very reliable devices - stick them in the rack, fire them with ipads, or foot pedals - skip tracks and manage playlists - never had one mangle a track, and far more reliable than a computer - even a mac running qlab, which is the most common source of tracks nowadays, of course - often with a second mac running as a hot standby.
 

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Bands I've seen in the last few years using clicktracks: Rush (ok, that was like 10 years ago) and Cheap Trick. Not everyone in the band hears the click, but when the drummer does, the drummer counts off every song - a sure sign.
 
Rob is that you doing the presentation? So this is what you do for a living? If yes...Whoa and WOWSER!

I love this song and do a solo version that I love to do using my little TC helicon harmonizer ...Lets just say I may omit a smidge of the frickin nuances of this masterpiece.
 
our biggest money earner is shows, but that is seasonal, very busy from November to January, one day off, Christmas Day, and the six week summer season. When I started it was ten weeks! We do the music stuff all year, but we‘re just about to start the equipment prep for this summer, so it’s flown Pa, lights using the audio we produce. Come October, it’s back into the store, and then out it comes again for Christmas. In between, whatever comes in. On Monday I’m starting a job making up a video to be used for a big party, lots of photos, tributes and non-descript music. I’m good at non-descript easily forgettable, but importantly, copyright hassle free music. However, when the business started, nearly 40 years ago, we were dealing in two way radios! When covid killed everything, I started the radios again, mainly marine ones, as I’m in a port. It kept me going, so I‘m still doing that!

The thing that does my head in is that I’m probably the only member who has two real names, which originally I tried to keep separate. British performers union, Equity, wont allow more than one person to share a name, so when I joined, I had a brainwave. I was adopted at birth, in 1958, but my adoptive parents, the only ones I’ve ever known, told me as soon as I was old enough to understand. like those TV programmes, I got the court records unsealed and discovered Robert was my real name, and I found out my real father was in the USAF, based in the UK, who went back to the US with my brother, who is still alive. I discovered from the USAF where my dad was buried and my brother is somewhere in California, totally unaware I exist. I tried, like on TV, to get in touch, but I think I found my uncle, and called him, to be told basically, to go away.

Rob became my Equity name, and my email is rob, but my post and tax says Paul. It used to be confusing, but I got used to it. Causes confusion sometimes when people try to book travel for you and your passport doesn’t match. I do theatre show management, and you always have “known as ….” In the contracts, I get peoples real names and dates of birth and it’s funny to find loads of your friends are also different people. I wish I’d not started it to be honest, but I’m stuck with it! now I’m old, I don’t bother so much but history is history.

i discovered my dad was in the USAF special services, which I figured was a spy type thing, but it turned out he was a ……. Musician!

I suppose this technically makes me American? Who knows?
 
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rob aylestone said:
our biggest money earner is shows, but that is seasonal, very busy from November to January, one day off, Christmas Day, and the six week summer season. When I started it was ten weeks! We do the music stuff all year, but we‘re just about to start the equipment prep for this summer, so it’s flown Pa, lights using the audio we produce. Come October, it’s back into the store, and then out it comes again for Christmas. In between, whatever comes in. On Monday I’m starting a job making up a video to be used for a big party, lots of photos, tributes and non-descript music. I’m good at non-descript easily forgettable, but importantly, copyright hassle free music. However, when the business started, nearly 40 years ago, we were dealing in two way radios! When covid killed everything, I started the radios again, mainly marine ones, as I’m in a port. It kept me going, so I‘m still doing that!

The thing that does my head in is that I’m probably the only member who has two real names, which originally I tried to keep separate. British performers union, Equity, wont allow more than one person to share a name, so when I joined, I had a brainwave. I was adopted at birth, in 1958, but my adoptive parents, the only ones I’ve ever known, told me as soon as I was old enough to understand. like those TV programmes, I got the court records unsealed and discovered Robert was my real name, and I found out my real father was in the USAF, based in the UK, who went back to the US with my brother, who is still alive. I discovered from the USAF where my dad was buried and my brother is somewhere in California, totally unaware I exist. I tried, like on TV, to get in touch, but I think I found my uncle, and called him, to be told basically, to go away.

Rob became my Equity name, and my email is rob, but my post and tax says Paul. It used to be confusing, but I got used to it. Causes confusion sometimes when people try to book travel for you and your passport doesn’t match. I do theatre show management, and you always have “known as ….” In the contracts, I get peoples real names and dates of birth and it’s funny to find loads of your friends are also different people. I wish I’d not started it to be honest, but I’m stuck with it! now I’m old, I don’t bother so much but history is history.

i discovered my dad was in the USAF special services, which I figured was a spy type thing, but it turned out he was a ……. Musician!

I suppose this technically makes me American? Who knows?
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Wow crazy story! Sooooo is that you in the video?
On your brother in Cali...I live in Cali and happen to be pretty good at this finding people and bringing the skeletons out of the closet. My son-in-law at 32 still had no idea where his Bio dad was. I said that's bull shit let me help you track him down. He needs to know you exist and you need to get "His" side of the story good or bad...Well I found him, he was on the other side of the U.S. in Virginia. He met him, got the real story...found out he had two half brothers that look a hell of lot like him AND found out he had a shit ton of relatives here in Cali that he now has a relationship with...It was a crazy trip...He got to meet his grandmother before she passed and his dad got cancer and died a few years later...He'd of never met him or known what he knows had I not been compelled to push the issue and make it happen...my money is on your brother would fricking like to know he has a brother...screw Uncle dumbass. I'm in for the helping hand if you want to use it.
 
rob aylestone said:
My feeling is that music should be live, unless live is not the best, in which case, tracks improve value for money and audience satisfaction. At the other end of the scale, my band supported a 70s chart act, who had negotiated to use our PA - he handed our sound op their Best Of CD. Nothing they played or sang was in what the audience heard. Guess how many complaints? Zero! There are even examples of big names who are a bit er, 'gone' - and one of the guys in the band is there to fill in their parts when they can't. if they forgot the words, they were sung in seamlessly, if their hands forgot what to play - same thing.

When I play in bands, with clicks, I hated it at first, but you sort of come around - however, it also makes things like vamping an intro while somebody speaks very difficult.
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In the late 70's I got to see Yes in Vegas and happened to get amazing seats and back stages passes. While watching Wakeman I noticed as he was playing his Hammond I was hearing some very cool synth parts. After the gig I got to spend a few minutes with him and called him on the phantom synth parts...he sheepishly smiled and said "Oh ya know we have a few tricks"...My introduction into what we think we see and hear may not be exactly what is really real..or "live".

I love playing and recording live..fuck ups. warts n all. I was relieved and inspired when in the video you posted it was mentioned about the myriad of tempo changes.. When you're playing ...especially without a drummer, click track or drum machine tempo is NOT so critical and is actually way cool to be able to use as a tool in expression..pauses an extra round of chords or improv is a hoot live...when I am playing solo I am a free bird able to sing my song as I feel it in the moment not bound to a rigid structure and THAT gets felt and experienced...good or bad...

I'm going to record a live version of my interpretation of the Carpenters "Close to you" and post it here for ya...as soon as I can come up for air from this damn remodel I'm trying to wrap up..have about 150 more feet of detailed 4" baseboard to cut, fit and install, a microwave and ceiling fan to install..and then I can go invest a half hour into banging it out...
 
I'll look forward to it. I can do you a funny story - we had a change of vicar at a church here, close to me . A small Church of England one, very pretty. The new vicar was called Trevor, he'd moved about twenty miles to this church from his old one in a little village. The churchwarden and verger told him every new clergyman was expected to put on a concert - a good one, not rubbish as part of the moving in process. So Trevor asked one of his old parishioners from his old church to come and do a concert - it was Rick Wakeman! Damn good first concert. He's well known here as he calls himself a grumpy old man! He's getting arthritis in his fingers, which causes him some grief! When I was teaching, he came to college and did a workshop with the students - brilliant!

Tracks do place importance on being structured, which for some can be very tricky to master. Today I actually found my first pro click track DAT tape! Click left, and right was a lead vocal, and a random synth!

On the relative front - if you were born here before 1970, counselling is mandatory before you get access to the records as all parties were told the records were sealed for life - so the families and the case workers assumed the paperwork would remain secret for life - so I got to read things perhaps I shouldn't. They also warn you the TV shows are fixed. They research celebrities lives and only approach the ones who have interesting pasts or where missing relatives want contact. In real life success is very low. Many parents who give their kids up never tell their new husbands/wives or families. I have a sister - she's adapted too and her real mother emigrated to america too! She's a high powered Lawyer, and my sister made contact and got a cease and desist from all contact, with threats about this and that when she made contact. I know my brother returned to the US at some point but I'm sure I eventually found my dad's brother. I decided that after being told his brother had never had any children in the UK, that clearly, they didn't know, and I didn't want to wreck things. I'm not really worried, as my adoptive parents badly wanted a child, and got me and my sister (who of course is not actually related to me biologically) The only downside has been not having medical history of my real parents? Heart, cancer, dementia etc etc - I just don't know. I do know that I have given up - the quest was sort of interesting, but not essential. My mum - is apparently remaried somewhere here and again, the trail went dry - but I'm not bothered. It's kind of fun I have a full brother called Rocky, somewhere?
 
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queen had thousands of vocal tracks (heheh, ok, well, maybe 24 a song...) on their albums...

mostly only used 2 vox live.

nobody cared.
they rocked.

carpenters, that's a whole different thing.

but having a lead singer that can sell the melody,
is REALLY all you need.
 
OK a little crazy but I grew up with guy next door a few years older who's name was Rocky...He'd be about 71-72 right now...He had a sister and there was never a Dad in the picture... Mom was a knock out. Last name was Tavalier (not sure of the spelling) He was a bad ass mo fo.

I also went to school with a kid named Rocky my age he went with the last name Durant but when he got busted for joy riding in the paper it turned out his real last name a Charles Griner.

And lastly not your brother but my Dad's step-brothers Hollywood name was Rocky Allan Lane...Though he was quite a big cowboy star and your brother was probably named after him, his big claim to fame is he was the voice of Mr. Ed 1654351697227.png
 
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Well I told you I'd record a version the way I do it live with my TC Helicon voicelive sidekick mic on ..Though live, You can only pull this off with heaphones.. so if you are there watching it must be heard via headphones cause the harmony mic is always ON, sounds like dog shit when speakers are playing at the same time...

Now the ol remodel is still killing me along with life's usual commitments so to get out there and lay a track down has been challenging...last night a midnight emergency got me out of bed ( somehow a neighbors cat had jumped our block wall from a pile of river rocks...one of the rocks fell and hit a 1/4" hose bib and turned the hose in our backyard on...dang..The wife heard the water and had me investigate...handled it went back to bed but having a hard time going back to sleep...soooo up I went out to the studio and start messing around and this is one very off the cuff never tried this before version with some whacky drumbeat with a bird squawking every so often.. I have never sung it this way but parts of it are how I normally do it..Mistakes were made , I did clip away one whoops and made it a lot shorter....AND I have a cold but you get an idea of the fun I'm having doing these one shot live things...That damn harmonizer thingy is addictive...enjoy or cry Mo fo! The wife n I ......joined at her bad hip.... :laughings:
 

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I've actually got one of those TC Helicon things in a rack somewhere, I must dig it out and do something with it - thanks for the idea!
 
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Yep I have the rack version too along with this floor pedal model. It will totally do the same..

One important things that the later versions don't offer is the midi in from your keyboard to send what the structure of the chord will be. e.g. I can be playing a c major and sing a c note and will get a major harmony. I drop to a minor and the harmony changes even though I have not changed singing the C note. You have to noodle / experiment around sometimes and then play the chords a little different that you normally would or the harmony sounds screwy but when they are sweet.

The other thing I am doing that is unique is using the two mics thing. One for the main vocal, one for the harmonizer and it is always on just set about 6" to the right of the main vocal mic...I slide back n forth to get the smooth transition rather than the on / off button harmonies.. totally different effect Down side is it can only be pulled off in a headphone only environment.
 
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rob aylestone said:
That's amazing - I didn't know that. Rocky seemed to me to be a bit strange, but I can see now where the history is - thanks!
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OH shit left out one of the most likely reasons a boy might be named Rocky back in the 50"s

The late great Rocky Marciano


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