recoridng in stereo! so confused please help

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tojo

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Ok heres the deal, I'm really confused about this: recording in stereo. I recently came to understand (or think i understand ) that recording in stereo means having two tracks of the same part (a guitar chord progress for example) and having one panned hard left and the other panned hard right. So basically you record the track once and then again and pan them opposite ways... is that called "stereo"? because when i add a new track on my daw i would click "add stereo track" for example. Is that a real stereo track?

by that i mean, do i have to have two mics recording the part? Because i can see that the wav. file on the screen has two identical sides to it. It sounds pretty flat though. I know that when you record th same track twice and pan it, it sound so much more full.

Also another question... can you "pan" mono? I was trying out ardour which is a DAW for linux and it didn't have a slider thing to pan when it was a mono track that i created.

thanks for all input, I greatly appreciate it.
 
you're a little confused.

recording a guitar track, then playing it a second time and recording it is just considered "doubling"

To get a true stereo recording you need to use a stereo mic'ing technique with two microphones.

mono=one microphone
stereo=two microphones


To clarify
An example of a mono recording would be using one microphone one a guitar amp
An example of a stereo recording would be recording a choir with two mics setup in an XY pattern
05.06-X_Y-miking.gif


Another example of a mono recording would be using one microphone on a guitar amp while placing another microphone a few feet away. Even though we're using two microphones, they aren't near eachother....each is picking up it's own distinctive sound. When mixing you could easily pan both tracks right in the middle.

A stereo recording is only stereo if it truely reproduces a stereo effect. In other words, if listening back in stereo you can visualize the spatial perception that is trying to be recreated.

Most of the time you will record in mono. Most single sources are recorded in mono; a vocalist, a trumpet player, an electric guitar, a bass player, a snare drum (even though you might mic it with two mics, you still pan them both in the same place generally)
Every once and awhile you come across something that might sound better in stereo. Usually you have to think ahead and say "will this sound better spread apart in the stereo spectrum when I mix it?" For example; piano (mic the low and high strings), acoustic guitar (mic the body and the frets), choir (point one microphone at the left side and the other at the right...so that when played back one person can say "hey, the sopranos are in the left speaker and the baritones are in the right!")

HTH
 
Benny, you just solved a HUGE problem for me... (Not to hijack the thread, but people should know if they don't)

I have been recording each of my acoustic tracks with 3 to 4 mics at once... Stereo pair XY right at about the 12 fret (one pointed towards the body with a pad on it and one pointed towards the fretboard - about 5-6" away), one mic at the head of the acoustic (pointed at about a 45 degree angle towards the neck of the guitar, about 3-4" away) and one SDC "room mic" (above, out front, about 3-4' away). I have been panning each track to different degrees (i.e. stereo pair about 30-40 left, head about 65 left and room about 70 left - or right, depending on the track) and it has sounded pretty rough... After grouping each take closer together, but in the same side of the stereo field, I have achieved much better results in overall sound.

Thank you... Proceed... :o
 
ok so basically, recording say an acoustic guitar part with two mics is recording in stereo. So using two mics, will make the sounds much more full?

do a lot of people do "doubling" ?

I don't have two of th same mic to do an xy pattern i just have an audio technica at 20 20

13638.jpg


its a large diagphram condenser that i point at the 12th fret of my neck. I record a lot of acoustic guitar.... should i just go with doubling and try and play it the same as the initial track that i'm copying... or should i pick up a matched pairs of condesnsers .... i.e.

BEHRINGER+C+2.JPG


thanks a lot again!
 
It depends what you’re trying to do. Doubling will give you a totally different sound than recording in stereo. If you want to experiment with stereo recording then as Benny said you will need two mics. Acoustic guitar can sound very nice in stereo so it’s worth a try, do some research on your options for mics though. On the budget side I like the MXL 603s, ymmv.

For me acoustic guitars should be pretty clear and unprocessed sounding so doubling wouldn’t be suitable most of the time. As usual though there are no hard and fast rules so if you want to try it then go right ahead.

It will NOT give you the same or even a similar sound as a stereo recording though. The wiki page on stereophonic sound might give you a better understanding of what you’re actually achieving by recording in stereo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo
 
like Kevin said, doubling gives you a totally different sound. It gives you a sound similar to a chorus effect (if you're familiar with chorus pedals).

Two mics on an acoustic is very common. Then you just pan the tracks to taste (say body mic in the left channel and fret mic in the right)....gives you a nice stereo image. Drum overheads are another example. Mic the top of the drum with two mics and you can get a simple stereo image of the entire drum set.

Basically you're trying to get the microphones to represent your ears (they even have a fake human head you can buy with microphones in the ears for ultra-realistic stereo...called binaural).

Don't get confused on the difference between recording and playing back in stereo. We always playback in stereo (using two speakers)...but we don't always record in stereo. Again, it depends on the mic'ing technique that determines whether you are recording in stereo or not.

here are some links with the different techniques and one with an audio example:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/shure/mics/stereo/techniques.php
http://www.csun.edu/~record/stereo/

pikingrin-
glad I helped you, although I'm a bit confused as to how :p
 
When you take a mono track and "make it stereo" it's not really stereo. It is a duplicate (cloned) track. The most usefull aspect of this is to allow you to add different efx to the tracks, for example, pan one track to one side and keep it plain, pan the other to the other side and add delay to create the echo effect of a large room. This is not true stereo, just a way to somewhat broaded the sound of an existing track.
 
Yo Tojo! Choosing a "stereo" track does not create a stereo image. Using 2 mics doesn't necessarily, either, although it's a start. Some stereo recordings use three mics, such as a Decca Tree. Stereo recording is *not* an electronic decision. What it is, is using 2 or more mics to create an acoustic model (it's only a model) of what your 2 ears would have heard if you had been there when it was recorded. Sometimes, as in binaural recording, the mics are actually placed as they would be in a real human head, with a baffle between them to substitute for the actual head. Other techniques, such as spaced stereo recording, use mics much farther apart than your 2 ears could ever be.

Mid-side, or MS stereo recording uses a figure-of-8 mic and a unidirectional mic, usually cardioid or hypercardioid. The figure 8 track is doubled and the phase reversed on one of the doubled tracks. There are a bunch of ways. Note that stereo recording, with all of its subsets, is only one way to record an acoustic, and there are numerous techniques involving 2 or more mics that are *not* stereo recording. Stereo recording is one plan, not the only one, and not always the best one. First do a search on these stereo recording systems- coincedent stereo (that's the X-Y system detailed above), Blumline (this is another variant of the X-Y concept), spaced stereo recording (mics many feet apart, often used for recording large ensembles, choirs, etc.), Decca Tree (this uses 3 omnidirectional mics in a triangular array), Jecklin Disc.(similar to binaural, if your head was turned sideways). Note that all of these systems, except MS, tends to use identical mics and preamps, or as similar as possible. Hence the market for "matched" stereo pairs of mics.

So the big question is- how do you record an acoustic guitar? First, most engineers prefer condenser mics over dynamics for that application, although ribbon mics, a specialized subcategory of dynamics, are sometimes used. Both small diaphragm and large diaphragm mics are used, sometimes both of the above. The most common spots for mic placement are:

1. close mic'd (anywhere from 6" to about 24") somewhere around the 12th fret. As the mic gets closer to the soundhole, it becomes bassier. As it is moved up the neck, brighter.

2. distant mic'ing- (about 3-12') This picks up more room reflections, and is often called a "room" or "ambient" mic. Often a stereo pair is used, usually in combination with a close mic.

3. Across the top of the guitar- This can be placed almost anywhere, but a common use is over the right shoulder of the guitarist with the mic pointed down across the bridge. The idea here is to pick up what the guitarist hears. After all, he's not in front of the guitar.

4. Sometimes an internal mic, as in a Fishman prefix or triad system, or even a pickup, piezo or magnetic, is recorded direct, and may be blended with tracks from other mics, or occasionally is used instead if the mic tracks came out badly. This can happen when the room, or for that matter the guitar, sucks.

I have used all these techniques, and almost all of the possible combinations. The above is pretty much "just the facts, ma'am". What follows are simply my opinions:

1. If your room sucks, or you have a lot of ambient noise (your room sucks), *don't* use room mics. You are only recording something that sucks. Conversely, if you are in a good room, make sure you *do* use room mics.

2. The over-the-shoulder technique sucks if the guitarist is a heavy breather. If he can't breath quietly, don't waste your time.

3. For whatever reason, if it is an acoustic with nylon strings, I've had better luck with small diaphagm mics backed off a bit, say 2-4'. This is when that X-Y stuff really shines. I have not had good luck close mic'ing nylon strings, and this goes for harp, also.

4. An X-Y array, either coincedent or Blumlein, needs a certain amount of distance to create its stereo picture, say 2 to 6'.

In general, I've had my best luck recording steel string acoustic with one large diaphragm close mic on the 12th fret adjusted up or down to taste, often using bass cut on the mic, the preamp, or both, to decrease "boom" (low frequency overload) panned to middle, and a coincedent pair of small diaphragms, backed off 5-6', no bass cut, panned hard left and right. The best choices I own for this are an AKG C414B-ULS up close, and a pair of Neumann KM184's for the X-Y pair. There are lots less expensive options for this, and much better ones that I can't afford. For cheaper, an AT4033 and a pair of Studio Projects C-4's work pretty well. If I was a really rich mofo, I'd use an ifet7 and a pair of Schoeps CM-6's. Hope this helps.-Richie
 
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