Recording with a Dual Deck Cassette Player

[GuyPlaysMusic]

Hello friends,

New user here (As you could tell by my posting a new thread here). I joined these forums and came here today because I seem to have a bit of a problem with setting up this particular way of recording. Below I have a bunch text explaining the situation, if you don't wanna read it I put a tl;dr at the bottom describing it.

Backstory: I am a big fan of recording things in a simple way. As much as I like to think computers make it easier, for some reason I'm just much better at using basic tech in a quiet room with everything in the world around me off (For awhile I even liked using Audacity over Cubase. Also to be fair, I'm a big fan of lo-fi stuff).

I used to have a dual track stereo that would allow you to record over tracks. It was awesome, but now it's broken (And I don't have the means to fixing it). Going to my local thrift shop, I found they had a section of tape and vinyl players! I was so happy to find one that looked nice and had recording properties to it! The exact model is a Kenwood Stereo Double Cassette Deck KX-W595. So I picked it up (7.50, I recommend you all go to your local thrift store to see what you can find!) and brought this baby home with me!...

The only problem is that it apparently can't record. From what I gathered, it's only made for dubbing. I can record into it using my mixer, but I can't play it in the playback and then record over that (At least not to my knowledge). I didn't even know they made them like this...

Anyway my question is this: Given the circumstances, is there anyway for me to record the way I had wanted to using this kind of recorder? I have no idea how I could use it now, I was thinking maybe somebody knew how I would use this sorta thing for recording music. If I could get some nice warm cassette recording songs, I would be so happy. Half of this bold text isn't a question, I'm sorry haha

Below the tl;dr would have been a link to the manuals for the Kenwood. I can't post links until I hit 10 posts Let me know if you need to see if and I'll figure a way out! As additional information, I have an Alesis Multimix 8 USB mixer. Pretty simple standard mixer.

tl;dr: I bought a dual deck recorder, I'd like to put it to some recording use but I'm not sure how, though part of me is confident that there is no way. I'd like to know if anybody could help me out with figuring it out. Kenwood Stereo Double Cassette Deck KX-W595.

As a final note, thanks for reading this whole thing if you did! Also thank you in advance for any information or advice given! Here's hoping we can make something work!

 

[ecc83]

AFAIKT (because I cannot easily find a user manual) that machine is your bog standard, dual cassette with duping facilities (high speed?) .
I have a similar Technics machine. These usually have only one set of line ins and outs so there is no way you can play a tape and dub it, with new sounds, onto a second one. IF you had a schematic and the skill you could tap into the playback circuits of the second deck to do this.

But there are other ways to skin this particular moggy...Get a second cassette machine, then you could play in tape one (via mixer) and feed more music in (again from mixer) and record the resultant mix.

Better, if you want to keep "tape sound" would be to build tracks on the PC (Samplitude Silver would be great for this) then mix them down in software to the cassette.

BEST of ALL. Chuck the cassette and do it all on PC!

Rock on,
Dave.

 

[mjbphotos]

I did the 'two cassette decks' thing when I first started recording demos for my band in the early 80s and could not afford the 1st generation 4-track cassette decks.
Two problems you face doing it: 1) no two consumer cassette tape decks run at the same speed - with some decks not even running at the same speed when recording as playing back! That means that when you go to 'overdub', you've got re-tune your instruments to match up the last track(s). 2) Generation sound degradation. "Lo-fi" is one thing, but every time you run a generation through cassettes (and the associated preamps and converters in the decks) the sound gets pretty horrible quickly noiseXnoise.
For $7.50 you got a cassette deck capable of dubbing. For $7.50 plus shipping, I'll disconnect the one on my living room stereo and send it to you! None of the recordings I have on cassette are worth salvaging, I know!

 

[DM60]

If you want to do it simpler (i.e. no computer) check out a used portastudio. What I read here doesn't sound very simple to me, and then get into doing all the work and it still sounds like a 1970's copy of an album. You can probably find a used portastudio a couple hundred US Dollars. New start at around $399 (Sweetwater/Guitar Center). That would be easier. Plus, you could eventually move into computers for mixing by dumping your tracks to the computer.

 

[Lt. Bob]

the unit you have is going to record but it will only record on one side. The other side is gonna be playback only.
And it will NOT record over something already recorded without erasing whatever was there previously so you can't do sound-on-sound.
Just look for a porta studio ..... there's got to be a zillion of them out there for cheap if you want to stay with tape.
But I wouldn't ...... I'd go with one of the newer digital portastudios ..... you won't have to worry about getting decent tapes (which are getting harder and harder to come by) and it will absolutely be as easy to use as your older setup.

 

[GuyPlaysMusic]

ecc83 - Thanks for trying to find the manual, though it wouldn't have helped anyway I'm guessing hahaha. My head exploded when trying to imagine how to put the dual decks together. I decided to look up samplitude, and given that it's free it doesn't seem to be a bad solution to this. Do you know of anywhere that could help me figure out how to use it? Final note: Without trying to sound like a hipster: How dare you! I love Cassettes! :O)

mjbphotos - I'm gonna keep you in mind for that since you seem to have something much similar to what I'd want to use. Though I would also assume we have different power chords and volts being in different countries. You should absolutely save those tapes though! There's a beauty in them! Always appreciate songs of the past! I sure do! (But then again, I'm 21 doing this for 5 years so I probably don't hold the same level of apathy towards them).

DM60 - The point is for it to sound like a 1970's copy of an album! I'm not looking to spend hundreds on one of these things! I just want something cheap! Haha, I love recording in cheap ways, having a clean mixer and strong mic take the fun out of things. From time to time I'll record songs using my old flip phone and then upload them to my PC! I think John Frusciante and Modest Mouse's first albums got into me too soon, I love ambiance and dirty recordings. But thanks for the advice!

Lt. Bob - Lieutenant Bob, Private Guy reporting for duty! I would want an old portastudio if anything. I love the idea of having one, but I can't seem to find any tape ones that are cheap. And I mean like really actually cheap, not "I have a job and I have a little bit of extra money from this paycheck" cheap haha, Digital sounds nice, but it's the tape ones that get me feeling confident and happy and warm for some odd reason. As of now, I just identify with my dirtier recordings than my clean ones. I guess I'm weird

I suppose I'll look for a tape portastudio, figure out how to record using samplitude and the cassettes, buy a new dual deck, or just give up and sell all my instruments! Hahaha!

 

[mjbphotos]

I don't miss the days of cassettes. The wow-and-flutter. The decks that would work fine then one day "eat" a couple of yards of tape before clogging to a stop. I remember having a little portable cassette player when the takeup reel motor wouldn't be able to turn the C-120 tape as it neared the end of the side and I would stick the end of an incense stick into the cog and help it turn.
For the money you'll spend on an old cassette 4-track or digital portastudio, buy an interface. Really. Or get a Zoom recorder which can function as an interface for you at some point.

 

[Nebakanezer]

I agree with keeping an eye out for a cheap 4-track recorder (look locally first, so you can give it a test drive) and then you can use the deck you have now to mix down to. A standard cassette deck is designed to play stereo tracks on each side of the cassette (Side A=Left/Right going this way -> and Side B=Left/Right going that way<- in the opposite direction). Your typical 4-track recorder takes a recorder/playback head and "converts" the head so that it will "read" those 4 paths in only one direction, giving you track 1, track 2, track 3 and track 4. It also so allows you to record on one track and play it back while recording onto another. Sorry if you didn't need it broken down and explained.

Also, consider using shorter cassettes. The longer they are (i.e. 90 min), the easier it is for them to stretch out.

 

[ecc83]

Tutorial: Samplitude Fundamentals [Video Download] | MAGIX Samplitude Pro X

Getting to grips with recording software is a challenge but well worth it'

I did get as far as finding a source for the manual but they wanted my email addy and stuff and having just recovered from the "amazon" virus that took me a 7 hours computer time to fix, I wasn't 'avin' any!

Try to learn some basic electronics too. Nothing NASA, just Ohms law and audio voltage levels. Decibels are pretty vital to know as well.

(Yeah, Pro X is the biggy but the basics are the same.)
Dave.

 

[dervish riff]

There's used 4 tracks on C'list, seen them as cheap as $20.00 with a mic (last week). I went that route for years, but not being able to do small edits instead of re-doing whole sections got to be a drag. If you've got that kind of time, knock yourself out.

 

[grimtraveller]

What I read here doesn't sound very simple to me,

I concur with immense concurrency {}. What you propose doesn't sound simple at all. It sounds like picking the wheat, milling the flour, straining the sugar and sifting the salt, then leaving it overnight, chucking the concoction into a heatspot under the earth when the sun is at it's zenith.......when there's a loaf of bread and toaster in the kitchen.

If you want to do it simpler (i.e. no computer) check out a used portastudio.

^^^^This +

Just look for a porta studio ..... there's got to be a zillion of them out there for cheap if you want to stay with tape.

^^^This = a way forward.

I don't miss the days of cassettes. The wow-and-flutter. The decks that would work fine then one day "eat" a couple of yards of tape before clogging to a stop. I remember having a little portable cassette player when the takeup reel motor wouldn't be able to turn the C-120 tape as it neared the end of the side and I would stick the end of an incense stick into the cog and help it turn.
For the money you'll spend on an old cassette 4-track or digital portastudio, buy an interface. Really. Or get a Zoom recorder which can function as an interface for you at some point.

Some people give up drugs. Some give up cigarettes and some give up booze. Mjb gave up portastudios and standalones !

 

[mjbphotos]

Some people give up drugs. Some give up cigarettes and some give up booze. Mjb gave up portastudios and standalones !

I gave up cigarettes, too - 12 years ago. With the cost of them now, figure that adds up to about $2000 a year (yet my wife still companed about the $1500 Taylor I recently bought!)

 

[grimtraveller]

I gave up cigarettes, too - 12 years ago. With the cost of them now, figure that adds up to about $2000 a year

I stopped in 1995. But when I think about it, over the years I was offered {and accepted !} far more than I ever bought so in the end I hardly saved anything.....other than my lungs of course !

 

[TimN]

Samplitude is free? Where? You mean the demo? Samplitude Pro is definitely not free, and the lightweight Music Studio retails for around $80.00 US. Ditch the cassette players--tape is hard to find, and the dicking around with the machines? Right now, in hell, Satan's got some of the biggest sinners working daily with Portastudios. However, if you can get a Nakamichi, by all means get it. But you're gonna pay for a working order machine. I've got two (a CD 1 and a 480Z, plus a nice Onkyo Integra (given to me for free by a friend), plus a Tascam 424 MK II. They're all collecting dust, but I think I'm going to put them all online in my modest rig, in case I get a job from some youngsters who are mightily impressed by these relics. Good luck with your quest.

 

[ecc83]

Samplitude is free? Where? You mean the demo? Samplitude Pro is definitely not free, and the lightweight Music Studio retails for around $80.00 US. Ditch the cassette players--tape is hard to find, and the dicking around with the machines? Right now, in hell, Satan's got some of the biggest sinners working daily with Portastudios. However, if you can get a Nakamichi, by all means get it. But you're gonna pay for a working order machine. I've got two (a CD 1 and a 480Z, plus a nice Onkyo Integra (given to me for free by a friend), plus a Tascam 424 MK II. They're all collecting dust, but I think I'm going to put them all online in my modest rig, in case I get a job from some youngsters who are mightily impressed by these relics. Good luck with your quest.

Samplitude SILVER is free,...Well, they dick you about a bit after a week but it is still free.

Dave.

 

[TimN]

I've never heard of that--but I'll bet they want you to get the big daddy (Sam Pro X) real bad. Just for fun, I put in all the old tape machines into the loop, as it were. Right now, I'm listening to Linda Ronstadt's Greatest Hits on the Onkyo, a machine I'd only listened to once, briefly, just to make sure it worked. It actually sounds quite nice. You know what? I'm gonna go down to the basement and get all the old mixtapes and the prerecorded tapes and listen to some of them--maybe all of them. It's funny--the other day, via Thumbtack, I was contacted by a guy who had several songs on cassette that he wanted to transfer to CD. So obviously people are still using cassettes. But outside of demos and that sort of thing, computers and DAWs are light years better.

 

[ecc83]

"but I'll bet they want you to get the big daddy (Sam Pro X) real bad. "

Nope. Once the week later registration is over you never hear from MAGIX again and I have had Silver for well over a year.....But! MAGIX, if you ever read forums, PLEASE make an up to date version of Sam SE8 for about £50-80 (tis a bit clunky on W7/64) . Music Maker is Toy Town and you have nothing remotely "pro" to compete with the lite likes of Cubase and Sonar etc.

Have.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I was contacted by a guy who had several songs on cassette that he wanted to transfer to CD. So obviously people are still using cassettes. .

well, HE wanted that transferred because he wasn't using cassettes or he'd have just listened to it on his cassette player which he obviously doesn't have since otherwise he wouldn't need to contact someone to transfer it to CD.

I have 5 cassette players including a Nak 'cause I never toss anything but they have not gotten any use for quite a few years.