Recording "Wet" Audio Tracks

[bongolation]

OK, I'm stuck in the gate yet again with Cubase.

I want to record an audio track with effects, just like in analog recording.

I record the track using an insert or send effect and it sounds OK when I'm doing it. I "rewind" and normalize everything - turning the effects off, etc. I play it back and the track is "dry," that is with no effect. The effects remain external to the actual audio recording.

Nothing in the aftermarket or original manuals explain this as far as I can see. It's inconceivable to me that one can't record a effects-wet audio track.

What am I doing wrong?

 

[Laynestaley]

I don't really see what your problem is. Just turn the effect back on, then export the track from Cubase..

 

[bongolation]

OK, so let me see if I understand you:

If I export ("bounce") that dry track using the effects to another track, it is then recorded as a wet audio track?

 

[Laynestaley]

When you record a track in Cubase you’re creating a wav-file on your HD. You can then put an insert or send effect on it in Cubase and you will hear the effect when you play the wav-file back in Cubase. However this wav-file is not changed. It doesn’t matter wheter you have the effects on when recording or not. The wav-file will allways be dry. If you want it to be wet you’ll have to export it from Cubase.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Not to mention the fact that it's usually better if you don't record with effects in the first place.

When it comes time to mix, you may not want as much reverb as you put in during tracking but if it's part of the track, you're stuck!

 

[bongolation]

> It doesn’t matter wheter you have the effects on when
> recording or not. The wav-file will allways be dry.

This seems monumentally inefficient from a resources standpoint, unless I completely misunderstand how plugin software works.

So, ALL plugins in an entire project will be operating all at the same time during the final mixdown?

That's just crazy.

The sort of thing I'm thinking of is, for instance, using a pitch correction plugin on the original vocal track to clean it up before moving on. Sure, other effects would be added during the mixdown, but for the basic track, you'd want the repaired, on-key, "wet" .WAV file to work with, not the caterwauly original .WAV file, no matter how many other effects you might want to use in the final mix.

See what I'm getting at? Some tracks have to be incrementally massaged as the project goes along.

Does this make sense?

 

[bongolation]

Not to mention the fact that it's usually better if you don't record with effects in the first place.

When it comes time to mix, you may not want as much reverb as you put in during tracking but if it's part of the track, you're stuck!

I understand that part - though there are effects and there are effects (see above). Sometimes you are using plugins simply to repair or build the basic track to which you will add effects later.

By "effects" here I mean "any plugin," not just tube emulators, flangers, reverb and that sort of stuff that more appropriately belongs in the mix (though even this is a subject of disagreement among bigtime producers from what I have read).

I'm just thinking, "how many velocity-layered VSTi drums and VST effects and tracks and whatnot can this CPU mule carry before it just sits down and won't get back up?"

It seems to me that to reserve your limited hardware resources, one would try to save massaged tracks "wet" as new .WAVs as he went along just to free up resources later.

Am I right about this, or am I just once again stuck in analog recording mentality?

 

[Laynestaley]

So, ALL plugins in an entire project will be operating all at the same time during the final mixdown?

That's just crazy.

That IS the way it is.

The sort of thing I'm thinking of is, for instance, using a pitch correction plugin on the original vocal track to clean it up before moving on. Sure, other effects would be added during the mixdown, but for the basic track, you'd want the repaired, on-key, "wet" .WAV file to work with, not the caterwauly original .WAV file, no matter how many other effects you might want to use in the final mix.

See what I'm getting at? Some tracks have to be incrementally massaged as the project goes along.

I see what you mean. In order to work with the wet file you'll have to export it and import it again. You could also work with an external editor like Wavelabs for instance. When you doubleclick on a track in Cubase, it will open in this externar editor. If you use an effect on the file there it will be saved wet. This way you do not have to exit Cubase for changing the wav's.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

You're mixing up 2 separate processes......

There's audio "editing" - part of which may include fixes such as autotune - and you can choose to either render the modification (meaning the original WAV gets affected), or it becomes part of the edit history of the file, meaning it is applied "live" every time the track is played (ie it is not rendered so the original WAV is unchanged.)

The second part of plug-ins are the inserts - your reverbs, delays, choruses, etc.... typically you add these via the s/w effects sends/rtns and they never become part of the original WAV files unless you specifically export.

Cubase SX2 adds another twist in that its routing allows you to add effects WHILE recording - in this case, they become part of the original WAV since the effect occurred during the recording process.

 

[bongolation]

You're mixing up 2 separate processes......

There's audio "editing" - part of which may include fixes such as autotune - and you can choose to either render the modification (meaning the original WAV gets affected), or it becomes part of the edit history of the file, meaning it is applied "live" every time the track is played (ie it is not rendered so the original WAV is unchanged.)

I think this is more a question of production terminology, as the process of using a plugin would be the same regardless of its function - adding reverb or AutoTune would look the same to Cubase - but I see what you're saying and it makes the discussion clearer.

The second part of plug-ins are the inserts - your reverbs, delays, choruses, etc.... typically you add these via the s/w effects sends/rtns and they never become part of the original WAV files unless you specifically export.

Yes, this was my original question. Apparently in Cubase VST 5.1 I cannot record a track wet, but I can export/save/render it wet and reimport it, right? - in which case I'm accomplishing the same thing as recording a wet track, but in a more roundabout workaround.

Am I correct there?

Cubase SX2 adds another twist in that its routing allows you to add effects WHILE recording - in this case, they become part of the original WAV since the effect occurred during the recording process.

Recording a "wet" audio track, just as I asked in the first place, it sounds like you're saying! Unfortunately, I'm stuck with 5.1 due to some hardware legacy problems...but no biggie.

This has been very interesting.

Once again, analog mentality has been my problem. I have lost untold months trying to make Cubase work like an old-time tape studio!

Thanks for the clarifications! I will do some experimenting later.