Recording through keyboard headphone socket
- Thread starter skorn
- Start date
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
Welcome skorn!
I had the same problem. I had no car for 18 months, so had to push a trolley to the local regular gig I did.
To that end I bought a Yamaha P35 piano, because it weighed only about 10Kg.
That piano had speakers, but no line out connections. It did have a stereo headphone socket.
You could get a 1/4" splitter cable (stereo to 2 mono), and plug them in to your sound card.
I'm an electronics design engineer, so I opened mine up to look for the signals on the circuit board, so I could add line out capability.
I found tthe signals, and planned a little buffer amp for them, but the circuit board was small, and all the components were tiny even for surface mount.
I didn't bother doing the surgery, for fear of doing damage to the delicate components.
It sounds like you need a proper audio interface, rather than messing with sound cards.
Even the cheap ones are good.
I had the same problem. I had no car for 18 months, so had to push a trolley to the local regular gig I did.
To that end I bought a Yamaha P35 piano, because it weighed only about 10Kg.
That piano had speakers, but no line out connections. It did have a stereo headphone socket.
You could get a 1/4" splitter cable (stereo to 2 mono), and plug them in to your sound card.
I'm an electronics design engineer, so I opened mine up to look for the signals on the circuit board, so I could add line out capability.
I found tthe signals, and planned a little buffer amp for them, but the circuit board was small, and all the components were tiny even for surface mount.
I didn't bother doing the surgery, for fear of doing damage to the delicate components.
It sounds like you need a proper audio interface, rather than messing with sound cards.
Even the cheap ones are good.
Hi and welcome Skorn, as Ray says, perfectly feasible but there are a few issues.
First off, and this applies to any headphone output, it is "stereo" although on such a basic keyboard I doubt that matters much. However, you will need a 3.5mm stereo plug to two MONO jack sockets to extract the signal. Then two 6.35mm (1/4") jack to jack plug cables to go to the interface.
And yes! You really do need an interface and PLEASE get one with TWO mic/line inputs. I had the Behringer UMC 204HD for a while and it really is very good but if you can afford better I can also recommend the Native Instruments KA6 and the MOTU M2 or M4. If you have any charity/cash converter shops near you check them out. Interfaces are very unlikely to be faulty and all the details can be downloaded from the mnfctr. Despite my suggestions, as Ray says, there really are no 'bad' interfaces these days.
Do come back if you have further questions.
Dave.
First off, and this applies to any headphone output, it is "stereo" although on such a basic keyboard I doubt that matters much. However, you will need a 3.5mm stereo plug to two MONO jack sockets to extract the signal. Then two 6.35mm (1/4") jack to jack plug cables to go to the interface.
And yes! You really do need an interface and PLEASE get one with TWO mic/line inputs. I had the Behringer UMC 204HD for a while and it really is very good but if you can afford better I can also recommend the Native Instruments KA6 and the MOTU M2 or M4. If you have any charity/cash converter shops near you check them out. Interfaces are very unlikely to be faulty and all the details can be downloaded from the mnfctr. Despite my suggestions, as Ray says, there really are no 'bad' interfaces these days.
Do come back if you have further questions.
Dave.
skorn
New member
I'm so amazed of your precises answers
Everything is so clear now
But I have a friend who told me that
Charly , don't bother take an interface on AliExpress and you are good to go
well I don't think it is the answer
so I will follow your recommandations especially from ECC 83
okay now I have to buy this interface and I think I'm good to go and the sound will be so great
Last question
WHen you say there are no bad interfaces these days
Is there really a big differenece between the ni and the motu m4 ?
Thanks again both of you
Everything is so clear now
But I have a friend who told me that
Charly , don't bother take an interface on AliExpress and you are good to go
well I don't think it is the answer
so I will follow your recommandations especially from ECC 83
okay now I have to buy this interface and I think I'm good to go and the sound will be so great
Last question
WHen you say there are no bad interfaces these days
Is there really a big differenece between the ni and the motu m4 ?
Thanks again both of you
"
WHen you say there are no bad interfaces these days
Is there really a big differenece between the ni and the motu m4 ?"
What 'we' mean is that these days audio interfaces all have a very good basic sound quality. The digital converters are without obvious quirks and things like microphone pre amps have improved immeasurably in the last say, five years. If you know what computer "drivers" are well, many cheaper AIs used very poor ones but that is now a rare problem. Needless to say! Both the KA6 and MOTU have truly excellent drivers and even with a fairly low grade computer will deliver low "latency" (another word you may not know...but you will...I assure you!)
As to which is the 'better' interface? Cor blimey guv'nor! Could not rightly say! They 'present' differently. MOTU front on. KA6 top access. Yer pays yer money. Electrically the KA6 has S/PDIF in and out but the MOTU will run (as PRE AMP say) 'stand alone' from any 5V DC source.
Speaking of money? The KA6 is available from Thomann in EU for £125+£10 shipping. Bit of a steal IMHO.
Dave.
WHen you say there are no bad interfaces these days
Is there really a big differenece between the ni and the motu m4 ?"
What 'we' mean is that these days audio interfaces all have a very good basic sound quality. The digital converters are without obvious quirks and things like microphone pre amps have improved immeasurably in the last say, five years. If you know what computer "drivers" are well, many cheaper AIs used very poor ones but that is now a rare problem. Needless to say! Both the KA6 and MOTU have truly excellent drivers and even with a fairly low grade computer will deliver low "latency" (another word you may not know...but you will...I assure you!)
As to which is the 'better' interface? Cor blimey guv'nor! Could not rightly say! They 'present' differently. MOTU front on. KA6 top access. Yer pays yer money. Electrically the KA6 has S/PDIF in and out but the MOTU will run (as PRE AMP say) 'stand alone' from any 5V DC source.
Speaking of money? The KA6 is available from Thomann in EU for £125+£10 shipping. Bit of a steal IMHO.
Dave.
skorn
New member
This is what im.gonna buy on your recommandations
Motu 4 + https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0C27Y7MMN/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?smid=A3IXW21BU1TOQ4&psc=1
Plus
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B077ZCB1K4/ref=ox_sc_act_image_4?smid=A3IXW21BU1TOQ4&psc=1
THE usb is for my tablet
Am i good?
Motu 4 + https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0C27Y7MMN/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?smid=A3IXW21BU1TOQ4&psc=1
Plus
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B077ZCB1K4/ref=ox_sc_act_image_4?smid=A3IXW21BU1TOQ4&psc=1
THE usb is for my tablet
Am i good?
Last edited:
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
The Motu 4 is a good choice, and is versatile. It should come with a usb cable to connect to your computer.
I've looked up the P95, and it has two headphone sockets, for pluging in two pairs of headphones.
I assume the 2 headphone sockets are stereo 1/4" jacks.
In that case all you need is that second amazon link, along with the Motu 4.
I can't see why the first amazon link would be any use, unless you want to get audio out of your iPhone, and into your audio interface.
I've looked up the P95, and it has two headphone sockets, for pluging in two pairs of headphones.
I assume the 2 headphone sockets are stereo 1/4" jacks.
In that case all you need is that second amazon link, along with the Motu 4.
I can't see why the first amazon link would be any use, unless you want to get audio out of your iPhone, and into your audio interface.
"And the first link is for the 2 outputs of the interface TO the tablet s8 plus"
No, as I read it that cable takes a USB signal FROM a tablet TO an analogue input.
Don't know if this helps but the M4 has a "loop thru" function whereby any signal going through computer audio, radio, YT or say playback of a file, can be recorded through the virtual tracks 5/6.
Otherwise with the M4 and that jack to jack breakout cable you are golden!
Dave.
No, as I read it that cable takes a USB signal FROM a tablet TO an analogue input.
Don't know if this helps but the M4 has a "loop thru" function whereby any signal going through computer audio, radio, YT or say playback of a file, can be recorded through the virtual tracks 5/6.
Otherwise with the M4 and that jack to jack breakout cable you are golden!
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
Don't forget that Yamaha, ROLAND and others have done this rather stupid thing with only a headphone out for years - BUT - it does seem that the keyboards can deliver an impedance match sufficient for the usual purposes - that of DI'ing or sticking into line inputs of all types. 3 circuit jack to two, 2 circuit jacks is a pretty common working solution that seems to work pretty well. In fact, it's really common for people to just stick in a unbalanced jack and just run it mono. This is a clue to me that Yamaha and others just built the output stage to cope with one channel being shorted out! I've never even heard of one keyboard output stage dying through this - my conclusion being that they just built a bullet proof output capable of driving headphones, amps, DI boxes and instrument and real line level devices. It's been going on for the entire lifespan of the clavinovas, after all.
The only concern I really have with the Yamaha and Roland range of keyboards is that the sound is a bit compromised. Not in a big way, but all the ones that have great actions and sound pretty good through the internal speakers, always sound a bit thin when recorded or plugged into PAs? I don't know why, but I suspect the sound is 'tuned' for the speakers and is not quite as good, without what the speakers contribute? It's often possible to hear a recording and say "That's a Clavinova" - less so with the more synthy keyboards they make and Rolands - they are more neutral.
I think a month or so ago, Dave said that there really are so few bad interfaces now - all makes and origins, and I agree with that. Anything with a sensible price point seems OK. In my video studio, to solve an instant problem, I used a Chinese interface I bought to review that looks, but isn't, like a Scarlett. It solved my immediate problem, but instead of replacing it with the real one from my other studio, I've left it doing it's job and used the 'posh' interface elsewhere. It's hiss free, transparent and has been on 24/7 for two months. It can stay.
The only concern I really have with the Yamaha and Roland range of keyboards is that the sound is a bit compromised. Not in a big way, but all the ones that have great actions and sound pretty good through the internal speakers, always sound a bit thin when recorded or plugged into PAs? I don't know why, but I suspect the sound is 'tuned' for the speakers and is not quite as good, without what the speakers contribute? It's often possible to hear a recording and say "That's a Clavinova" - less so with the more synthy keyboards they make and Rolands - they are more neutral.
I think a month or so ago, Dave said that there really are so few bad interfaces now - all makes and origins, and I agree with that. Anything with a sensible price point seems OK. In my video studio, to solve an instant problem, I used a Chinese interface I bought to review that looks, but isn't, like a Scarlett. It solved my immediate problem, but instead of replacing it with the real one from my other studio, I've left it doing it's job and used the 'posh' interface elsewhere. It's hiss free, transparent and has been on 24/7 for two months. It can stay.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
I'm not familiar with the tablet's usbC connector, but the blurb at the first link says the cable is for outputing audio from the tablet to speakers (etc.).
So those two jacks wil be wired to tablet output pins on the connector. They can only go to one place.
It would have to have another two cables to cater for input to the tablet.
I found this explanation of usb C: https://www.soundguys.com/usb-audio-explained-18563/
The normally digital interface can switch to analogue mode.
I can see it would be technically possible to send analogue audio in either direction accross usb C, although not at the same time, but I doubt software would cater for that.
Your original post, skorn, said you want to get your piano signals into your computer, not a tablet.
A computer and Motu 4 is a good option for you.
Messing with tablets and usb C is likely to end in software incompatabilities.
The P95 is old now, just like my P35, but they do have their charm. My P35 has a very nice 'Puff Organ' voice, and I've never found similar elsewhere.
"In fact, it's really common for people to just stick in a unbalanced jack and just run it mono. This is a clue to me that Yamaha and others just built the output stage to cope with one channel being shorted out! I've never even heard of one keyboard output stage dying through this - my conclusion being that they just built a bullet proof output capable of driving headphones, amps, DI boxes and instrument and real line level devices. It's been going on for the entire lifespan of the clavinovas, after all.
Yea verily Rob ^ Historically headphone outputs on basic mixers and later AI were isolated by a physical resistor, usually between 33 and 120 Ohms (yer bog standard desktop soundcard was 100R)
This resistor had 3 very necessary functions.
1) It protected the HP amp chip from shorts. All such chips had current limiting this was a bit of belt and braces.
2) It equalized to some extent the volume into different HP impedances, after all they can span from a totally stupid 8 Ohms to 'pro' 600 Ohms. And,
3) It kept the chip stable if a very long 'cappy' cable was used, a long guitar cable say.
Now, there has been a fashion (imo) in the last five years or so to give HP outputs a near zero impedance. I see no benefit to this save marketing bllx but I hope that the 3 points above still apply? For sure nobody is TESTING for the fekker!
Whilst here I shall mention the other 'classic' headphone jack bo-bo...Peeps take a TRS-TRS j-j cable and connect a HP socket to a BALANCED AI input. The result is next to no sound.
Dave.
Yea verily Rob ^ Historically headphone outputs on basic mixers and later AI were isolated by a physical resistor, usually between 33 and 120 Ohms (yer bog standard desktop soundcard was 100R)
This resistor had 3 very necessary functions.
1) It protected the HP amp chip from shorts. All such chips had current limiting this was a bit of belt and braces.
2) It equalized to some extent the volume into different HP impedances, after all they can span from a totally stupid 8 Ohms to 'pro' 600 Ohms. And,
3) It kept the chip stable if a very long 'cappy' cable was used, a long guitar cable say.
Now, there has been a fashion (imo) in the last five years or so to give HP outputs a near zero impedance. I see no benefit to this save marketing bllx but I hope that the 3 points above still apply? For sure nobody is TESTING for the fekker!
Whilst here I shall mention the other 'classic' headphone jack bo-bo...Peeps take a TRS-TRS j-j cable and connect a HP socket to a BALANCED AI input. The result is next to no sound.
Dave.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
The designers would have to be idiots not to protect their connections from being shorted by the idiot users.
But there are idiot 'designers' in this world.
But there are idiot 'designers' in this world.
rob aylestone
Moderator
On the Yamaha and Roland pianos, stuffing in the mono plug also reduces the reverb a bit. a Y-split style stereo cable retains more of the width - often more common on the electric piano and string sounds if they have them.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
You connect it not to a tablet, but to a computer, and on the computer you run a program called a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).
Nobody has mentioned DAWs yet.
With such a setup you have multi-track recording. You can record several tracks at once, or add tracks one at a time.
I use the Cubase Elements DAW (~$100), but a very capable free one is Reaper.
It has to be said that the computer must be fast enough. They don't have to be the absolute fastest on the market, but the cheapest entry-level computers are
unlikely to be fast enough. Chrome-Books are no good, you need windows.
I use a quad-core i5 laptop (mid-priced), but have used a fast dual core i3 in the past.
You have not said what sort of computer you have, skorn.
I'd forget about tablets.
If this is beginning to sound expensive to you, there is another route to recording, which is a stand alone hardware recorder. No computer required.
It combines an audio interface, with multi-track recording, in a single piece of hardware.
I have a few, but my cheapest is the Tascam DP008EX, an 8 track recorder which can record 2 tracks at once. (~$250)
skorn
New member
Hi
Thanks for the reply in fact I am a musician for 30 years so I already made music on a computer but I had a big problem in my house and my computer was lost
so now I just have a tablet to work on
so I'm taking some stupid software and I'm going to work on Android and that's it
But soon i will buy a big laptop
I use to work on reason and cubase 10 Btw
Thanks for your reply
Much appreciated
Thanks for the reply in fact I am a musician for 30 years so I already made music on a computer but I had a big problem in my house and my computer was lost
so now I just have a tablet to work on
so I'm taking some stupid software and I'm going to work on Android and that's it
But soon i will buy a big laptop
I use to work on reason and cubase 10 Btw
Thanks for your reply
Much appreciated
Too true! I recall a review of a pretty high end device* which 'boasted' about the "zero impedance" HP output and went on to give chapter and verse as to why they were superior to old "resistive" HP feeds. THEN in the manual it warns against plugging in a TS jack plug thus shorting the RH channel! That is just BOUND to happen.
*I cannot, atmo 100% recall the model and brand and would not want to start ill informed gossip. I shall see if I can find the review.
Dave.
Slouching Raymond
Well-known member
A Motu 4 just ain't gonna work with an android tablet, don't waste your money. You'd have to be a software pioneer.
Just searched 'android audio interface' and found this:
Same goes for DC wall wart sockets. I've seen people plug in a supply, whithout a thought for polarity. That's why the designer has to think about it.
markmann
Active member
I have an old Yamaha keyboard that I use on recordings occasionally. It just has a few sounds that I like that I can't get with anything else I have. Anyway, I run a Y-splitter cable that is 1/4 stereo (plugged into the headphone out) to two mono. I run two patch cables from the Y to my mixer/interface and it works well.