recording solos

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gianelli280

gianelli280

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sorry if i'm re-threading but i've been looking for about an hour and never found a solid "solo recording" thread.

I've been recording my bands first demo, 7-8 tracks depending on how long i survive this mess. I've been actually somewhat pleased from the past week and managed to get a reasonable sound out of everyone, just need to tweak bits here and there.

My issue is:

i have plenty of solos in this demo, and i'm looking for not the 'best' tone, but better than what i'm getting. I've worked with the mic dynamics, tweaked the amp, played with eq, double, triple, even quadruple recorded them to get a fuller tone, but still can't manage to nail that sound. probably because i've been listening to Unearth too much and they have perfecto leads that make me want to give up playing altogether (listen to 'my will be done' off The March... pretty discouraging yet motivating at the same time)

i'm just wondering if i really do need better equipment than what i'm using. 2 SM57's on the cab (one on a celestion v30 and the other a evm black label... two different sets of speakers in the same cab) out of a soldano slo replica (it's a damn good replica). The guitar rig seems fine, it sounds amazing live, but i am using a crappy tascam 164-u mixer which i think might be my weak link... either that or the sm57's (DON'T GET ME WRONG, they're amazing mics!!) i've tried working with audix f-15's, even a shure beta 52 just to see if i could get some huevos out of the cab i wasn't getting with the 57's.

lastly, i've multi-tracked solos and leads a bunch of times before, and if the part is easy enough i can usually pull it off with hardly any difference in tone, enough to beef up the lead some. however, the solos i'm having trouble with are pretty ridiculous and it's obvious in parts that multiple tracks are being recorded, like large bends or pinch harmonics. Hopefully there's an easier solution than nailing these leads over and over!

oh and my room is acoustically the most hideous mess you could imagine... :(

thanks!
 
Unless you're actually going for the multitracked/harmonized sound, you shouldn't need to double or triple your leads.

How are you micing your amp, exactly? Are you happy with the sound of the amp in the room? How about from right in front of the cab?

Unless you have a ton of experience with tracking with multiple mics, I probably wouldn't bother for leads. If you're using the same amp for rhythm and leads (ESPECIALLY if you're using similar settings), then it's probably in your best interest to make your lead sound "smaller" so it'll cut through better.

I'm currently tracking leads for an album using a SM57 on a Roadster with a Recto 2x12 - I'd meant to use a Nady RSM-4 for the leads because it sounded awesome on my old Rectoverb (it was a pretty bright amp, and that mic darkened and smoothed out the sound a bit), but after a bit of experimenting I ended up going with a SM57 near the center of the cone, but at about a 40 degree angle towards the edge of the speaker cone. That position smoothed out a lot of the SM57 "fizz" and seemed to bring out the mids somewhat, and just sat very nicely in the mix. To be far, though, I was using a different channel and guitar, 4 Modern with a slight mid scoop and moderate presence with mostly mahogany-bodied 6 and 7 strings for rhythm parts, and 3 Modern (smoother, less bassy, a bit more like a Mesa Mark series) with lots of mids and very little presence with my Strat and an Universe for leads... varying up your settings and guitar choice might help.
 
first off phew... that's reassuring knowing i shouldn't have to stack them.

I am satisfied with the way the amp sounds in the room, even though i am fighting the room. However... The amp i'm using is a single channle balls-to-the-wall metal machine, so all of my reverb comes after the mic since it doesn't have built-in reverb.

All i have for mics are the sm57, audix f15 and, beta 52 so i think i'll play around with the 57 some more. As far as running two mics goes is that a no no or can i pull that off? Everything was in phase when i checked but would one solid take be my best bet? I think you answered my question already by saying "don't bother tracking with multiple mics" but i just wanted to make sure.

I used my schecter atx for rythm parts, has semour duncan blackouts which worked perfectly. The other guitar i've considered using (and used for some clean parts) is my Gibson SG 3 pickup. not only because i can play better on it but it's got a nice variety of pickups (490t, dirty fingers, and a burstbucker).

as far as making the amp sound "smaller" i'm not quite sure what you mean by that...

Also since i started recording i've been boosting mids more and more, is this a bad practice with solo tracking? I know the scoopy sound is great alone, but can easily slip through everything else.

Lastly... (sorry, i know i have a TON of questions). A few of my solos have pretty deep notes in them, which i regret a little now because they don't cut through well at all (i managed to bring one through with eq but now it sounds like i'm playing underwater). Unfortunately they really bring the solo together and i want to see if i can bring them out. any ideas?

Thank you for your input!
 
oh, and i'm currently micing directly in front of the cone. i think that might be a part of my problem because i tried moving the mics around a little but didn't really hear much of a difference or i thought it was worse... i'll try one mic at 40 degrees, that makes sense.

Sorry to flood this post! thanks again!!
 
gianelli280 said:
as far as making the amp sound "smaller" i'm not quite sure what you mean by that...

Also since i started recording i've been boosting mids more and more, is this a bad practice with solo tracking? I know the scoopy sound is great alone, but can easily slip through everything else.

Lastly... (sorry, i know i have a TON of questions). A few of my solos have pretty deep notes in them, which i regret a little now because they don't cut through well at all (i managed to bring one through with eq but now it sounds like i'm playing underwater). Unfortunately they really bring the solo together and i want to see if i can bring them out. any ideas?

Thank you for your input!
Click to expand...

Hitting your last couple questions...

Well, as they say, if everything sounds huge, then nothing sounds huge. A huge drum sound with a huge bass sound with a huge rhythm guitar sound and a huge lead guitar sound is going to be an absolute mess if you try to mix it. If, however, your bass and drum sound fit together nicely, your rhythm guitars sit nicely on top of your bass, and the lead cuts through the midrange of the rhythm, then you have a bunch of individually small sounds that join together to form something big but clear.

Boosting your mids is definitely the way to go - the guitar is a midrange instrument.

Re: the low notes... if you're EQing your guitars and they sound underwater, something's probably wrong. I can't really suggest much without hearing it, but I'd probably start with a hi-pass filter somewhere between 120-200hz (this will probably kill most of the fundamental of your lowest notes, but that's probably fine) and a boost of maybe 3db around 1.5-1.8k. You also might want to try a broader cut of maybe 1-2db on your rhythm guitars there as well, if not for the whole song then at least when the solo comes in. That's a good general starting point for my guitar and my amp, anyway.
 
Drew: I hear what you're saying. i think my problem was recording every person (since we all don't live at my house) at different times and getting the best mix out of them before moving on to the next person.
I tracked my drummer first and got his drums sounding the best they could and then did a bunch of rhythm so my bassist could track (and didn't really mess with bass much because honestly... who cares about the bassist :D)
I really wanted the rhythm to shine because my rhythm guitarist is on a mission in vietnam, and i want him to have a good mix to re-record it with.

I'll give the rhythm mid cut a try as well!

Sonixx: Yes, we play metal, but nothing that's so brutal instrument quality doesn't matter. I'm on duty right now (i'll be off tomorrow so i can post something up) and my amp head is in the shop so i'm waiting to try these tips out and i was hoping to get an A/B for you guys. either way i'll post a clip of what my "best" sounding solo is as of now, and my worst to my ear.

Perhaps the entire mix will shed some light on the solo situation so i'm anticipating some feedback on that. I still haven't joined a website that i can post up mp3's... any suggestions?

I apologize for not having all my resources prepared for having so many questions, i've been busy with vox mixing on a budget (what a nightmare!!).

thanks again!
 
Have you tried maybe keeping the SM57 close to your amp and one a couple feet back preferably a condenser or a ribbon like the RSM-4 Drew mentioned?

Probably give you a bigger sound and more options to work with.
 
unfortunately i haven't been able to try anything since this thread started (amp's in the shop til tomorrow). i'll definitely try anything anybody's mentioned on this post just to see what comes out this weekend though!

for the rsm-4, what else could i use it on if i were to buy one? i don't want to pick this mic up just for one purpose unless it's really that hot of a mic, but 80$ is well within my budget. I could probably spend around 200$ on a mic if it would make a noticeable difference in my recording.
 
I can't really tell what mic to buy but condensers and ribbons pick up more frequencies and sound way lusher/warmer to my ears.

They can be very sensitive but to me the results are great and they can be used for virtually anything. I struggled for a while with a SM57 until I tried a cheap ribbon and condenser and I was blown away!
 
i'll see what i can pull off with what i've got, but i'll keep the nady in mind. i'm sure it wouldn't hurt to have another mic to play with.
 
gianelli280 said:
Drew: I hear what you're saying. i think my problem was recording every person (since we all don't live at my house) at different times and getting the best mix out of them before moving on to the next person.
I tracked my drummer first and got his drums sounding the best they could and then did a bunch of rhythm so my bassist could track (and didn't really mess with bass much because honestly... who cares about the bassist :D)
I really wanted the rhythm to shine because my rhythm guitarist is on a mission in vietnam, and i want him to have a good mix to re-record it with.
Click to expand...

Oh, man. Fuck the mix until after you've tracked everything. Seriously, it's not worth wasting your time. You won't know how the drums need to be mixed until you can hear how they fit together with the bass and the rhythm guitar. If you try to make them sound "awesome" solo'd, they'll almost certainly sound like shit when you bring other instruments in.

Just get good takes, recorded cleanly and to the ebst of your abilities, and worry about the mix when everything's tracked.
 
yeah i think i was about to come to that conclusion. i did a lot of the tracking one shot at a time but i had downtime in between the other instruments so i got bored and started mixing.

i did, however, mix the guitar off drums, and worked with the guitars to mix bass in. After i got a decent sound for one song i used it as sort of a template which helped out a little.
 
A few other things that may come in handy with getting your leads to cut through...

Less reverb on the lead instrument. Reverb tends to pull things back in the mix. So less will help it stand out a bit.

Panning!!! Panning your rythm instruments away from center and leaving your leads in the center will help them.

Other than that . . . uhhhh get a tone your happy with in the room and try to stay out of the way.


I hope that helps.
 
gianelli280 said:
Yes, we play metal, but nothing that's so brutal instrument quality doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

A classic quote about metal music! :D

I'm going out on a limb here...this MAY sound crazy...someone please correct me if it does....
...but how about you put up a SOUND CLIP so people can hear what you got, and maybe another SOUND CLIP of something that you like, so we can hear what you are after. ;)

It's really hard (actually kinda' silly) having a discussion about how something sounds and NEVER hearing it!!! :laughings:
(Unless of course we are all familiar with it…like a known song/album.)

On the ribbon mic suggestion...I think you should add one to your locker, and I recommend a Cascade Fat Head or Fat Head II. About twice the price of 57, but 5 times more guitar-friendly...IMHO.
In the end...the 57 could be what you want...but you don't seem to be having a lot of luck with it so far.
 
SOUND CLIP coming soon :D going to the basement to transfer it right now.
 
Something else you might want to try to do is compress the lead quite a bit to really smooth it out, then add any EQ after the compression in the chain. If you still need to thicken it up by double tracking, I would do it in the mix using some sort of ADT technique, but keep it subtle.
 
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