Recording Roland V-drum tracks

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VertuGoGo

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ok, we're set to record the drum tracks using my friend's roland kit this monday. i believe he has the TD-8, but it's been upgraded to match roland's top of the line kit right now. at first i thought we're recording into my sound card's rca inputs, but i was told it's better to record using MIDI cos we can split each drum pad into individual tracks and therefore have more flexibility editing. i hope that it would be as easy as plugging in the MIDI cables and sonar will just automatically assign each drum pad its own track, but i'm guessing it's not going to be that easy. anybody know how this is done? we're only allowed about 3 hours to record and i'm hoping for as little problems as possible.

also, anybody have any pre and post production tips recording with v-drums (volume slider settings, quantizing, etc...)? the more time we save the better.

P.S. i just realized that i cannot hear any midi tracks. i opened a tutorial with midi and i don't hear anything. when i go to Options ---> MIDI Devices, i have TTS Virtual Piano In and Delta AP MIDI for inputs with the Delta highlighted, and Delta AP MIDI, NemeSys MidiOut: Port 1, and Microsoft MIDI Mapper for outputs with the Delta and Nemesys highlighted. I used to be able to listen to the tutorials with my old sound card (SB Live 5.1), but i took it out when i installed the Delta. is this a hardware issue? if it is, what can i get so i'll be able to hear MIDI files?
 
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I just did some drum tracks for another forum member as a collab using the td-8.

Here's what you do. Definitely record the midi into a midi track, that will save you some time later if you want to swap out some sounds. In sonar 2.0 (is that what you're using) you can create a 'drum map' which will allow you to then reassign each drum if you can't get the sound that you want out of the td-8 and have something better at your disposal (like a drum sampler or a different module).

If the drum sound is mapped to a soft sampler you simply bounce to an audio track (it's real fast on my system). If you like the sound of the td-8 for specific drums you can just hit record and mute everything but the drum you want an audio track for. Takes a while but well worth the effort cause then you can mix/eq each drum separately.

Once you have all of your audio tracks then mix away!

I found in post production that I actually wound up swapping a few of the drums and crash cymbals cause the td-8 wasn't mixing right with the song. The snare was interesting. I liked some of the snare qualities of the td-8 but it didn't have the crack I was looking for. So I mixed together the td-8 snare, which had some really nice ghosting qualities with an NI snare, which had some good crack to it. So I wound up with a two snare hybrid in the end.

I didn't use any effects on the td-8.

I still don't know how to get the hihat to translate properly to the softsampler so i was stuck with the td-8 hihats which are ok imo. Not great, just ok.

If you have access to real cymbals I've heard people claiming that a td-8 with real cymbals is a pretty nice combo. I'm gonna try that as soon as I can afford it. Not sure if that is an option for you.

Best of luck. Tell us how it goes.
 
I know it is obvious but make sure your Midi isn't muted in the M/soft sound control (little yellow speaker icon, bottom right of your screen) If thats okay, play about with the different Midi outputs in Options>midi devices in Sonar.

You don't say what your sound card is, I guess its an audiophile of some sort.
 
Paul881, i went to my volume control panel and made sure nothing was muted (and nothing was). i played with all the possible outputs for MIDI and nothing still comes out. my sound car is an Audiophile Delta 2496.

erichenryus, what you just did is probably how we're going to do it. btw, what does "bouncing" to an audio track mean? i'd also like to know how i should set up my "chain." i know it should start off with TD-8 brain midi out ---> midi in sound card ---> ?
i don't know where to go with the midi out of the sound card. and there's still the problem of not hearing anything...can my other friend's midi brain help with this problem? he uses that midi brain to get sounds off his rubber pads when he plays drums live.
 
Describe to us how you have your midiman software mixer set up, post here the settings in your patchbay and your monitor mixer.
 
Monitor Mixer: all unmuted, all stereo linked, all levels raised up to the red marks (as suggested by the sound card company's tech). all that is except the S/PDIF inputs since i have nothing connected to it.

Patchbay/Router: selected "monitor mixer" for both H/W Out 1/2 and H/W Out S/PDIF. the other columns are grayed out.

Hardware Settings: "Rate Locked" and "Reset rate when idle" unchecked. Latency at 128 samples. "Disable control of the monitor mixer..." unchecked.
 
VertuGoGo, that all seems okay. The only thing I can suggest is that you try selecting a few different Midi outputs from The Sonar Options drop down and see if that makes a difference. Highlight and move them to the top.

I have a delta66+omni but I left my soundblaster Live! card in for midi connectivity and soundfont management. Having recenty got Livesynth Pro, I only use the s/b nor for the front panel midi connectivity now.

When you play back your midi, I guess you don't see any of your MAudio mixer level indicators moving?
 
i already tried different midi outputs and i still can't hear anything. then again from what i've learned my sound card doesn't have built-in midi capabilities so it's to be expected. i guess that's what the midi out connector is for. the tech from audiophile suggested using the midi brain we have to be able to hear midi tracks. and to answer your question--no, i don't see any mixer level indicators moving during midi playback (i'm using one of the tutorials).

i thought about putting my soundblaster back in, but chances are it'll just confuse the computer and probably mess up whatever i have working already.

is there anything i can do from a software perspective to be able to listen to the midi tracks? someone suggested using VST's--i have cubase which came with my soundcard, will that help? i don't know anything about it.
 
i have another question about recording drums using an electronic kit: when you record the drums through midi, can you split each drum so that if you have a 7 piece kit you come out with 7 different midi tracks? or does it all come out as one track?
 
VertuGoGo said:
...can you split each drum so that if you have a 7 piece kit you come out with 7 different midi tracks? ...
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Yes. And I highly reccommend this as it will give you more control down the road. There are some small program scripts that come with cakewalk in the Sample Content folder. One is called "Split notes to Tracks.cal"

Open up your project, highlight the track you wish to split. Click on the Edit pulldown and click on Run CAL. The dialogue box should be on the Sample Content folder. If not browse it and click on "Split notes to Tracks.cal"
It deletes the current track and replaces it with 7 (or however many different "notes" you use) new tracks.
 
ChuckU, first i DIGS your little icon.

ok, to this "split," do i have to record the drum track as midi? because if not, then my "not being able to hear midi" problem is solved and all i have to do is plug into my rca inputs (and not the midi input) and record the drum tracks as audio and not midi. i hope that that's the case.

btw, i'm reading my new book "Sonar 2 Power." i'm glad i came to this message board though cos you guys gave me a great headstart. thanks a bunch!
 
VertuGoGo said:
ChuckU, first i DIGS your little icon.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I'm very proud of that :D

ok, to this "split," do i have to record the drum track as midi?
Click to expand...
Yes. Absolutely. You can't "split" audio.

because if not, then my "not being able to hear midi" problem is solved and all i have to do is plug into my rca inputs (and not the midi input) and record the drum tracks as audio and not midi. i hope that that's the case.
Click to expand...
I don't know how the V-Drums is set up, but I suspect there is a midi out from the V-drums to the TD-8. What I would do is take that midi out and send it to the midi in on your soundcard. Take the midi out of your soundcard to the midi in of the TD-8. Take the AUDIO out of the TD-8 and monitor that somehow (even headphones, so the drummer can hear what he's doing). Set your midi channel to ch 10. Set your midi ins and outs to the soundcard you are using. Arm a midi track in Sonar and record the drummer playing. Now you should have a midi track with information on it.
Do the "Split notes to Tracks" thing I told you about. Now you have 7 tracks (for the sake of argument). Solo two at a time panned hard right and left and arm two audio tracks. Reroute the TD-8 audio to the soundcard audio in.
Rinse and repeat.


btw, i'm reading my new book "Sonar 2 Power." i'm glad i came to this message board though cos you guys gave me a great headstart. thanks a bunch!
Click to expand...
I agree. Sonar Power rocks. As does this board.
 
ChuckU, we're going to try it out tomorrow. i'm wondering though about "setting my midi channel to 10." anything special about channel 10? those midi channels still puzzle me.
 
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