Recording Recommendations

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mwarkentin

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I recently gained access to:
-Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro Mixer
-5 Shure SM58
-1 AKG c1000

I'm going to be recording my band in the church (new sound system, that's where I got this equipment). I'll be renting a digital recorder.. I've used the Korg D1600 before, so that's likely what I'll get again. I should have access to a mic designed for kick drums, but I'm not sure what kind it is.

I've got to record drums, guitar, bass, and vox. I'm just wondering if there's anything else I should want before I record.. different mics, preamp, etc?





There's two of the songs I recorded before with:
-Korg d1600 (mics plugged directly in)
-3 SM57s
-1 SM58 for the vox
-1 kick mic (again not sure of type..)

I'm just looking for any helpful tips/comments you could give me.. equipment, recording techniques.. I'm assuming I'll want to run the mics into the Mackie before the d1600 as I would think it would have higher quality preamps? Last time we used 4 mics to record the drums.. 2 SM57 overheads, SM57 on the snare, and a kick mic..

Anyways, thanks for your help.. let me know if you need any more specific information.

Michael
 
I would include a DI box or two. Definitely one for the bass guitar, and you could always use a second for a direct signal from the guitar amp in addition to mic'ing the amp. Looks like you should have a track to spare for that.

Other than mic stands and cables, which I'm sure you have, you've pretty much covered all the bases. You could always get fancier/more expensive mics and preamps, but you should be able to do fine with what you have. Especially if you get that kick mic.
 
Use the AKG c100 as your drum overhead.

Don't use the 58's for that. Use one of those on snare and one to mic the guitar amp.

Record everything a track at a time (or maybe just record the drums and bass together, recording the bass direct), and since you're recording in a church, take advantage of those gorgeous accoustics you will likely have going on. On guitar and voice, definitely use one of the 58s up close and the akg back several feet to record some of that natural reverb and blend the tracks.
 
chessrock said:

Record everything a track at a time (or maybe just record the drums and bass together, recording the bass direct)
Click to expand...

Sorry, Chessrock.:( Couldn't disagree more. (But you're still my buddy!) Seperation is over-rated - there is no reason why a band can't be captured playing naturally - it's been done that way since recordings were on wax cylinders.

While there may be technical advantages to recording every track individually, most of the time you lose something musically, like interplay between musicians, chemistry, and spontaneity. The bleeding of instruments into other mics actually can contribute a "live' feel that is desireable - oft times total seperation sounds sterile by contrast.

Following the seperation concept to an extreme would imply giving each piece of the drum kit it's own pass, which obviously starts to get silly.

It is our job as engineers to capture the best possible musical performance any way we can. It is not our job to compromise the musical performance just to make our job "easier". That's classic putting the cart before the horse!
 
I agree with littledog. Plus, (depending on the type of music you're recording) you're probably going to be fighting the acoustics of the church. Separating the tracks would make the job more difficult.

I've done a bit of recording (and a lot of playing) in churches, and the acoustics can get scary. If you're recording in the sanctuary, stone walls, gobs of stained glass windows, high wooden ceilings and pews can throw a lot of curve-balls into the process.

Do yourself a favor and make the time to do some testing before you bring the group in to record. Like chess said, you can take advantage of the room acoustics and natural reverbs, but you have to be careful. It seems like no 2 churches are the same so don't count on a formula - test it first.
 
littledog said:
Following the seperation concept to an extreme would imply giving each piece of the drum kit it's own pass, which obviously starts to get silly.
Click to expand...

You mean you've never done that before? :)

I actually agree with you Littledog. But it's a call that has to be made for each situation. Overdubs are a pretty much out of the question in your scenario, so the band better be good. Adding effects after the fact can also have similar nightmarish consequences (like when you add a delay to the guitar during a certain part and wonder why the drum is also sounds like it's delaying).

If the band is very tight, well-rehearsed, and you think you can get a great take out of them without any (noticeable or major) glitches that will require overdubs out of anyone, then absolutely, I agree with you 100% that a live take is often the best way to go.

Personally, I think there exists a pretty good compromize in between: Much of the live feel has a lot to do with the drummer and bassist being able to look at each other and communicate while playing, so I've always felt a good compromize is to at least track them live while overdubbing the rest.
 
Forgot to mention, yes, I've got two Behringer DI's.

I'm planning on tracking separately, same as last time. We did the drums first last time.. but he couldn't handle playing with a click track. I'm wondering how it would be to record a scratch guitar track to a click, then record drums to the guitar track, then do bass, redo guitar, then finally vox? Or just do drums first again?

We're recording in a sanctuary, but it is great for sound.

I'm also wondering about the drum overheads.. last time I used two SM57s.. so I was able to pan one left one right. Should I rent another C1000 so I can do this again? It sounded much better with the kit sound spread out a bit.
 
Maybe you could try using the 57's on toms and panning those a bit for stereo separation.

My experience has been that most dynamic mics just pretty much suck if you get them anywhere near a cymbal or hi-hat. They always wind up sounding all "sploshy" if that's even a word. :)

You might also consider recording a scratch take with everyone playing live through the mixer . . . mix that down to one mono track, and have your drummer play along with that as his "click track" (eventually killing that track, of course, after everything else has been overdubbed).
 
..I believe the term is "splooshy". I think it's Latin :D

If you've recorded in this Sanctuary and overdubbed before, then cool beans - all the more power to ya. And I swear by the "everybody-play-together" for the scratch track. As long as the meter holds up, it's usually a lot easier for the drummer to lay in a take.
 
The link to your song led me to a blank page... so I haven't heard it, but, I would recommend recording everything but the guitar solos and vocals at the same time. These bleed the most noticibly and are the most often goofed. 57's for snare and guitars. Bass Direct. AKG for overhead and later for vocals. If you have acoustic guitar, record it alone, use the AKG and a 57 (or a direct out if it has it).... pan these left and right for a big sound.
Walk around the church, clap your hands and sing... and listen. You may find natural "sweet spots" for your vocals, or a reasonably dead space for the drums by testing different areas.
Consider double tracking the guitar part and panning it left and right, this can give a mix a bigger sound (depends on the music).
If you do double track, do it right away ( it can be hard to get quitars tuned exactly the same way twice. )
Since you don't have a compressor for the vocals, make sure the singer is aware of his levels... try to keep them even by 'working' the mic.

Vegetable rights and peace.

Chaz
 
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