Recording output to VHS problem-not getting results looking 4

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Sunyboy

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Hi.

I am experimenting with VHS and was hoping to achieve that " built in limiting" that most consumer VCRS have built in ( so i've heard).

Weird thing is the other day I recorded a project to vhs tape without a limiter on the master and i cranked up the output on my mixer and pushed record on the tape.

I played the result back on the tape and the sound was clipping very much how it clipped when the output was being recorded. I expected some VCR limiting effect on the track I recorded to VHS.

Configuration for this trial- Main outs of mixer>>Input to VCR-- VCR output to L/R input of interface.

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i tried this again because something wasn't making sense to me, except this time I tried it by running the VCRs output through my TV tuner card. THIS time i got the "limiting" i was looking for, weirdly enough. Nothing clipped as long as my vcr was connected to my tuner.

I would like to ask, do VCRS have this built in LEVEL CONTROL? or is it that tv/tv tuners have some sort of limiter chip in them? I'm trying to understand why VHS playback straight into my interface clips, but when connected to my tv tuner (PCI) while the tv application is open, Nothing clips ( the effect i desire).

The thing is my tv application makes a lot of noise ( low hiss, dont know why), and I can hear some sort of radio in the background as if my vcr isn't grounded or something and well, that destroys the recording because it captures all that unnecessary shit when i record to vhs...

i would really love to capture this effect on my recordings because it sounds very transparent, But i am having a problem of understanding the clipping thing, and why my tv tuner application produces so much hiss/ low low low level background radio reception. ( the vcr isnt contributing to any of the noise, I get the noise soon as i open the video application, but more preciesly when its set to (composite)
 
okay...

So basically the question is... why you do you get clipping when recording to the vcr straight from the mixer?

I have been recording full 4 hour gigs using vcr for about a month now, similar set up to you... straight from the mixer into the vcr. Worked for me like a charm, the vcr tape produces negligible hiss... i mean the guitar amp has about 10 times more hiss than the tape produces so no problems there... even at very high outputs... and we are getting a good solid sound quality.

Ok... so yes it is possible to get an improvement from what it sounds like the results your achieving. First problem i see is that you are a little bit confused as to the 'limiting' function of the vcr. From what you have described, it seems you have not got the manual input volume control like some of the really good ones have.

The vcr will adjust the input volume to a certain extent, the fact that it has a 'limiter' - or really, an automatic input volume control, doesn't mean that you can slam the levels to +10dB or whatever, i purposely put my outputs at about -3 or -4dB to play it safe because i don't want to risk recording 4 hours of distorted music. If you are doing it purposely to get some sort of desired sound effect... i can only think you are confusing vcr limiter with the tape saturation effect you get on wide tape format reel to reels. The vcr auto volume control will either boost up your input if its too low or drop it down if it's too high (up to a certain extent)... so maybe try recording at say a -10dB peak output from your mixer, and dont worry about hiss, at worst... it's about even with a cassette recorder which is perfectly fine for most people including me.

Now the tv tuner thing, not sure why you would want to plug in your audio through that and then through the vcr... but a possible reason why it is 'fixing' your clipping is because it weakens the signal a bit before you plug it into the vcr which if is the case... do what i said and just output from the mixer at lower levels and bypass the tv tuner.

Last thing i have to say is what kind of vcr you got, i hope its a semi-new sort of one and not overly used and worn because first of all the old ones were mainly mono and had a really bad soundtrack quality compared to the later ones which had full hi-fi stereo and manual input volume control...
 
Hi. Thanks for responding..

I refer to the level control as a limiter * , i know its not the right term to use But it describes what i was able to achieve some years ago when i tried this out. So sorry for any confusion there.

Now the tv tuner thing, not sure why you would want to plug in your audio through that and then through the vcr... but a possible reason why it is 'fixing' your clipping is because it weakens the signal a bit before you plug it into the vcr which if is the case... do what i said and just output from the mixer at lower levels and bypass the tv tuner.


Well i ran the audio through the tuner because it seemed that was the only way to get the effect i wanted, and it sounded good too. The thing is, the hiss that i am aware of is not negligable, its hiss produced straight from the tv application itself. Actually I desire a bit of tape hiss myself, but when i run any tv tuner app ( i've tried sagetv, avertv, and others) i get this annoying hiss sound that does not come from my vcr or vhs. My tv tuning application seems to pick up some radio too..

this is the vcr i'm using.

http://www.amazon.com/Emerson-EWV603-Stereo-SCREEN-Recorder/dp/B0014CTTO6
 
ok cool, it seems your vcr is not the problem... should be able to get adequate quality from that vcr. So the tv tuner is picking up other stuff.... sounds like its doing what its supposed to.

Dont think i can help much more then, dont know much about tv tuners and stuff
 
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