recording my demo

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hardcore guy

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Ok, heres my situation. i want to record a really kick ass demo for my band which plays hardcore metal. i have a tascam424mkIII analog tape four track. my band consists of two guitar player, one bass guitar player, two vocalists(they scream), and me the drummer. the two guitar players play parts that are sometimes different, sometimes the same, and include both distorted and clean riffs. i can easily borrow DI's, maybe a DAT recorder and maybe some average nothing mics from friends. please take me through, step by step on how i should do this. this is my first big project on my four track and i plan on making many copies of this tape to sell at shows and submit to bands and companies. i am willing to except any advice, comments, procedures, tips, or anything that might help me out. i want this to be a very good recording and i am willing to spend lots of time and energy on it. please send all or any comments to: beatboy01@hotmail.com
thanks everyone for your help. laters-jordan
 
I hate to be all negative and shit... But you're not gonna be able to do it on a 4-trak.
Go to a cheap pro studio.
 
Don't be so negative. :)
Making demoes good enough for selling is doubtful, but making demos to send to record companies would be feasible. But you basically need to do it live. Which means you need a lot of good mics. If you don't have that renting a studio might actually be cheaper.
 
Don't listen to them you can record a kick-ass demo on a four-track. It all depends on how good you band is. The only problem with a four-track recorder is that you can only record one part at a time. The best way to record is to first lay down the rhythm guitar track, then go back over it with the lead, next put in your drums, and then your vocals. I suggest that every time you record a new track only listen to the first track that you put down, it's a lot easier. Also, if you have a lot of blank tapes around you can take your 4-track and turn it into an as many tracks as you want recorder. All you have to do is record all four tracks, then make your master copy (the one you can play in a normal radio), then put the master copy back into your 4-track. You can record on three tracks and still have all of the other stuff you recorded on one track. You can do this as many times as you want(as long as you have enough tape). Hope I helped.
 
i have relatively the same style of music and equipment to record my band on except we only have one singer/screamer, 1 bassist, me (1 guitar, and drums... for us it's possible to get each instrument on 1 track if we submix the drums, which allows us to actually playback and mix a little better than you'll be able to...

my advice for you, and this is just advice to be used as a jumpstart in a hell a lot of expirimentation, would be to get a small mixer (or maybe even use the tascam's mixer if you route the inputs creatively) and get a good live mix of the drums bass and 2 guitars onto tracks 1, 2, 3, and 4.. you could possibly overdub the guitars here too if you can do it without the normal scratch vocal most studios would use... mix these and get them all as good as you can, then do a external bounce or whatever they call it (there's info for it somewhere on this site)... basically all you do is mix down those 4 tracks to a computer, minidisk or whatever and then play back the stereo mixdown into 2 tracks on the tascam 4 track (less confuzing than you'd think)... now you have say tracks 1 and 2 with all the major instruments and 3 and 4 free... overdub vocals on 3 and use 4 for whatever else you'd want (extra guitar, backupvocals, etc)... this is just one idea to try, but it's an idea you probably wouldn't have to spend any extra money to try so you may find it useful

-steve-
 
Hey Dork: Your advice was stupid and you suck.
You DID choose the right screen name, though.
 
Ehm, dork: Yeah, you can record a "kick ass demo". Definitely. But not nothing sellable, which is my point.
And, Hardcore Guy needs 7 channels to record a demo the way you say. And then the drums would be in mono.
And no, with the 4-track HG has you can record four tracks at a time, not only one.
And, no, do NOT only listen the the first track you put down.
Yeah, bouncing works, quite right. But the way you described it will lessen the audio quality a lot. No kick-ass demo there.

My advice still is: either do what Skweek tells you (above) or get a lot of mics, record drums + bass + guitars live in stereo on two tracks. Then record the vocalists on one track each of the remaining two. Mix thoroughly and bake for 20 minutes in 200 centigrades.
Or, you could rent a cheap 8-track studio.


[This message has been edited by regebro (edited 07-27-2000).]
 
After hours, or during a slow period, is cheaper still at a studio. Can you track there when no one else is wanting the space? Well, you did say kick-ass. Four-track is the lowest rung of the ladder.
 
regebro's idea was definately another thing to try for a little DIY demo.. if you can get access to maybe 2 condensers (or, hell, you can even try it with 2 dynamics) try micing the room in stereo... record the first 30 seconds to a song bazillion times until you think you've accomplished a decent mix by moving around the mics, adjusting amp levels, moving amps, moving people, etc, and then record your songs live... this is gunna suck if you aren't a tight band, but if you are very well rehearsed and you are using a sonically good room (maybe you could rent one out for this... then again, if you're gunna rent stuff out you might wanna just do a studio) it could come out decent...

just to give you high hopes... i recorded a 4-track demo of my hardcore band about a month ago... recording quality is pretty sucky, and there are even a few messups on tape... but here's the deal, we wanted a little recording to make mp3's to show people what we sounded like, impress are friend, and maybe get us some shows... well, we've had a bunch of downloads and a lot of compliments on the songs by people we didn't know (btw, not compliments on the recording, but the recording WAS good enough to let people hear the song, if you know what i mean), are friends were impressed, and we're talking to some people who heard the mp3's about getting us on the lineup for a few small shows... nothing amazing, and I wouldn't dream of trying to sell this demo, but for free (well aside from the cost of my 4-track) it definately was a good deal
 
Hardcoreguy,

If you could borrow a DAT, you could do a decent external bounce.

example:
you record the drums, the bass, ant the two guitars on seperate tracks, on the MKIII. YOu could then mix to the DAT, then bounce the DAT mix to two tracks on the MKIII- you now have two free tracks two do the vocals and any other overdubbs you would like.
the disadvantages of this would be the quality of the external bounce (you have to go through two A/D/A conversions) And the mix of the instruments will be unchangeable-

If you are cmfortable gittng a good live to two mix (or three or four track mix) on the four track then that would be the best way to record, but if you need more tracks, then an external bounce would be good to experiment with.

-jhe
 
Actually, kick-ass demos can be done on a 4-track. But why? Anyone capable of doing a great 4-track demo couldn't stand to use one except for very specific situations. If you wanna learn, get a 4-track. If you wanna good demo, spend a few bucks and pay very close attention.
 
Ok it might sound weird but I have ran into this situation before too. What I did was put the two amps in one room micing both w/ the same mic at the same time its a bitch to eq but if you can get it down it really does'nt sound that bad but your still not going to be able to eq just one guitar so you have to get it right when recording. Like I said I've done it before and i'ts worked but some peoples luck are better than others.
 
Can you do a kick-ass demo on 4-track?

Yep.
(Did I leave my copy of Sgt. Pepper's lying around here somewhere?)

Is it likely you can pull it off to be able to sell it?

Nope.

(You know, I once dated a girl who's brother met George Martin's wife at the library one day)

I gotta go with the Dark Lord on this one - by the time you've mic'd, mixed, and done retakes, you'll be better off in a small studio with an engineer who has a clue (that's if you're serious about selling it to people who don't know you).

foo
 
Does anyone really still believe the Beatles recorded Sargent Peppers on a 4 track ? They probably linked several together....crude, but they had the finest technology and orchestral arrangers available at the time. I do think their songs hold up really well, great melodies and vibe.
 
wide
you should take into consederation the time that sgt peppers was recorded. Now in an age when high quality recording gear has become more affordable and acessable for Joe Musician, that the standard has raised. Just 2 or so years ago I could get a gig at a club because we had a demo that we recorded on a boombox. Now people won't take you serious with out a CD.
H.G. It's worth a shot, but I think It would be best if you went to a small studio or if you record on your 4-track hand out free copies of it.
Wally
 
Yes, believe it or not, Sgt Pepper WAS recorded on 4-track, by bouncing from one-machine to another and another until all the overdubs were done. A most incredible feat of production and balance-engineering. Maybe somebody should try and ask Geoff Emerick what the hell he actually did to maintain signal quality and keep the noise down. And don't forget all the great Motown, Stax, Spector, Joe Meek, Lee Perry and Brian Wilson records. Of course, it helps that these people had wonderful "vintage" gear and the most amazing ears on the planet. Get Mark Lewinson's Complete Beatles Recording Sessions if ya can, what a fantastic read.
 
In 1967, 4-track was the best that was available (it's a historical fact!).

In a BBC televison special, George Martin confirmed that the whole thing was done on two 4-track machines - one to record the album, and one to 'spin in the backing vocals'

It was the same special where he expressed the opinion about John's Strawberry Fields piano intro:
"Beethoven would not have been unhappy with it" and George is a man who knows of what he speaks.

I think it aired in December of 1998.

I'm getting pretty sick of this "they can't of been that good' bullshit.

... and I'm not even that great a Beatles fan, y'all, but goddammit, they were way beyond really good!

foo
 
hardcore guy said:

i can easily borrow DI's, maybe a DAT recorder and maybe some average nothing mics from friends. please take me through, step by step on how i should do this. this is my first big project on my four track and i plan on making many copies of this tape to sell at shows and submit to bands and companies. i am willing to except any advice, comments, procedures, tips, or anything that might help me out. i want this to be a very good recording and i am willing to spend lots of time and energy on it. please send all or any comments to: beatboy01@hotmail.com
thanks everyone for your help. laters-jordan
Click to expand...

Hi Jordan,

Give me a list of what equipment you have.
Everything you plan to use on this recording and I'll try to help you out.
I used to do 4-track Demo's for bands ($100 bucks for a 4 song Demo), and yes they did sell them at gigs.

I'll need to know the following:

Mic's (Kind, and how many of each)
Processors (effects, Compressors, etc.)
What kind of room you plan to record this in?
What size drumkit, and how do you tune them, Muffle them etc.

We'll start with the drumkit-since that always seems to be one of the major weaknesses in 4-track Demo's.

Tim
 
foo: Each of their tracks were significantly wider than one quarter of the width of cassette tape!
 
Yeah,and every single mic in the studios they used is on every Phil Spector/george Martin wannabe's short wish list,not to mention the Pre's,EQ's and Comps that are all collector's items now.
 
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