Recording Metal and Rock

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musicmanhans

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Hi there,

I am building up a studio in my basement. I have isolated walls and everything. Now I was wondering what kind of equipment to get. At school we record using SM57 and Sm 58 to mike the amps into a mixer and into a computer using a RCA to 1/8. For the drums we are using a Electro-Voice PL DK7 Drum Mic Pack. Now i was wondering if I can get some tips.

I have a couple of questions:

Shure mic set or the Electro voice? (I want a deep and good metal sound )

Should I use the mixer and plug it into a computer or a recording workstation
( I believe that the mixer is a better option because you have better control on your sound and you can modify it with programs, but I might be wrong.)

Here is the list of equipment I was going to buy:

SHURE SM58
SHURE SM57
YAMAHA (B-STOCK) - MG166C-USB
the mic kit for the drums

Thank you for your tips :D
 
We did this at school and it's not that bad. But my new console is USB... I won't have that problem.
 
musicmanhans said:
We did this at school and it's not that bad. But my new console is USB... I won't have that problem.
Click to expand...

The problem that you WILL have is if you're recording a drum set using USB mixer you better get your EQ and levels PERFECT because once something is mixed down it can't be unmixed.

So once you get your drum sound in your computer and you realize you need to tweak the eq on the snare a little you won't be able to. You'll be fucked and you'll have to re-record EVERYTHING.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Don't do this. Get a proper audio interface.
Click to expand...

and +1 to this.

Don't ask for advice and then ignore the advice you're given. I promise you that we will save you money in the long run AND give you better results.
 
Kingofpain678 said:
The problem that you WILL have is if you're recording a drum set using USB mixer you better get your EQ and levels PERFECT because once something is mixed down it can't be unmixed.
Click to expand...

Don't assume that all mixers with built-in USB interfaces are like this... most are, but not all. Would be worth finding out what the OP has first before jumping to conclusions :)
 
mattr said:
Don't assume that all mixers with built-in USB interfaces are like this... most are, but not all. Would be worth finding out what the OP has first before jumping to conclusions :)
Click to expand...

On the OP's list:

musicmanhans said:
YAMAHA (B-STOCK) - MG166C-USB
Click to expand...

To be fair, I didn't notice that when I first responded about getting a proper interface. Still, this also doesn't qualify as proper if he wants to record drums and have adequate control at mixdown.
 
Do the Firewire mixers have the same prob? Are they independent?
 
musicmanhans said:
Do you have any interface to propose?
Click to expand...

The MOTU 8pre would give you 8 preamps and 8 simultaneous tracks of recording via firewire. It's expandable to more via Lightpipe. There are lots of options out there.
 
musicmanhans said:
Ok thanks! But for the mics, any tips?
Click to expand...

It all really depends on your budget. If it's really tight and you're not in too much of a hurry you could wait for good deals on used gear. One good bass mic and a bunch of 57s would get you started for drums. Then add a couple of decent small diaphragm condensers for overheads. SM81s are common but by no means universal.
 
musicmanhans said:
Ok thanks! But for the mics, any tips?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get the '57 and the '58... they're essentially the same mic just with a different grill.

I'd say get the '57 along with some kind of large diaphragm condenser, then you have all your bases covered (that EV drum mic kit comes with a pair of SDCs).

Or scrap the idea of the drum mic kit and build up your own set of mics that will cover drums and everything else... pair of SDCs, an LDC, and handful of dynamic mics.
 
Now, I'm no expert on recording, and most of what I know has come from this site, but when it comes to recording drums here's what I'd suggest.

Look at the Recorderman method - Google it, Youtube it, learn it, love it.

Research Mics - based on the recorderman method try and find some suitable mics. If money is tight, it's always worth looking at what else a mic can do. The SM57 is good for recording the snare, but can also work well on an amp for example.

Consider the room - I think a certain level of natural reverb in the room is good, but you may want to deaden it. This is a huge subject, so again, google it.

Tune those drums - It's not as simple as "the drums sound good to me", really listen to them. You may hear low pitched toms with almost no resonance and think "awesome" but you put up your overheads and start recording and you'll hear nothing.

Experiment - Set up your drums, mics etc and just record some drums. keep adjusting mics until you get the best possible sound. you may find that certain things don't quite pick up well, such as toms as mentioned above. Move mics, change tunings and be prepared for a lot of work. If you feel that the toms need to more "focused" (possibly not the right word) it may be worth investing in a couple more mics and micing them too. I personally get the best results when I mic the toms, but it could be argued that both my equipment and my technique are not up to scratch. The more you experiment the better you get.

The better your dry sound, the less eq-ing, compressing etc. you'll need to do; saving time in the mixing process. Drums are the hardest to get right, but they make your song and it's so satisfying when you get even workable drum tracks. I really can't stress enough how important getting good drums are AND how much bloody work it can be (especially when you're the drummer and engineer, lol)

If you're interested in Firewire, I use a Presonus FP10. I'm not sure if it's the cheapest, or the best interface, but I've had no trouble with it all and it does exactly what I wanted it to do.

I hope that waffles helps a little.
 
Here's what I would do, aside from not looking at the recorderman technique to use every time you mic a drum kit.

Get an 8 channel interface firewire(400-600 low end). Get your 57 and the 58(250). Cables and stands (120ish), just for what you have now. Then you might want to get a decent ldc(?? 500 ??). D112 (250). Then get a cheap pair of pencils (600)... You treating your room as well? (1000s?) You need monitors (300-500 cheap) More cables and mic stands I forgot (350). You're at around 3500 to 4000 dallors. Mabey stick with the light version of cubas that comes with your interface? or upgrade (500)
Out board mixers cool to look at and all. but if you want to feel special and hands on get something like this http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/BCF2000.aspx. Much better mixer idea.

Now you're set to get started and it cost you under 5 grand. But of course you're just going to need some better plugins and pre amps now :) ($$$$$$)

If you just didn't realize how expensive it is to record decent sounding drums, then mabey you might want to take a different route. You say you're recording metal, most of the shit you hear is replaced or triggers. Definatly look into some triggers or drum replacing software like drumagog. It'll save you lots of money and make sure your drums are sounding top notch right away.

There are some options and opinions... good luck and get to it!
 
How many words rhyme with "Actually" ?

twsknight said:
I hope that waffle helps a little.
Click to expand...
The fans want action, not waffle !!






















Sorry, I couldn't resist that. I'm kidding. Your stuff was good.


Musicmanhans ;
You will by now have gathered that there are a variety of conflicting opinions. But fear not and let not confusion reign within........
HR.com is something of a paradox, in that except in matters where one is actually factually wrong, for the most part I've found that there is pretty much something to what everyone says, even in the fights and arguments. Some advice may seem old fashioned or unnecesary or outdated but people tend to advise or suggest from what they know and are used to. So in that sense, almost everyone's input is valid, regardless of how opinionated one is or how forcefully or eloquently put an idea may be.
So it's for you to do some work in assessing all this info and thinking hard and long and researching dutifully. Then make up your mind, let us know how you get on and do your thing. All these different recording set ups work.
And if they don't, I want my money back. :eek:
 
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