Recording live performances for video

[telemonster]

Hello.

Myself and some friends are looking to record bands live at
bar / club performances. Our goal is to do so for free at first
to build a library of live local performances for a TV show. Eventually we will do so for free a few times a month to add
new content.

My idea right now is to pick up a used ADAT XT, drop it in a rack
with a 1u microphone mixer. At the venue, use 2 channels for
"from the board" and then 2 or 4 channels from the mic mixer
connected to mics. Then if need be, use a Hi-8 video camera
and feed it time code from the ADAT. Or maybe use a good old clapboard for a visual + audio cue.

We haven't started experimenting yet. We have two Digital8
cameras and the non-linear editing equipment, and some sound
equipment. I've looked for books, but most refer to the home
studio aspect -- not live gigs.

Any suggestions? What kind of Microphones should I look into,
and what kind of placement? I figure the output from the board
(2 channel recording outputs??) will probably be rough and unusable because what's good for live event sound
will not be good for recording. Or am I wrong?

We don't have much of a budget, but I do think I can swing a
used ADAT machine and some microphones. As time goes on
we will be able to add more equipment to the arsenal.

I'm a geek and know the hardware and electronics. It's just the
actual microphone types and experience trying to get good sound
(from bad locations) that I lack... any advice is welcome! If anyone
has experience doing this I'd love to talk via email.

Oh and lastly, the music will vary greatly. We expect to get
everything from rap to rock to rap-rock(hah) to celtic and classical
quintet type performances. At first it will most likely consist mostly
of popular music.

 

[shackrock]

me too....

i JUST ordered a Sharp digital (miniDV) video camera off of EBAY...its brand new...damn cheap....and looks really nice (its that sharp one with the zoom microphone)....

I was thinking the same as you...we want to record some local shows with the camera, and get some good sound for the video as well. Lucky for me, i have a studio in my basement with plenty of equipment...but even luckier - the place we are recording has twice the equipment i do!! (minus the computer, lol).

So i was thinkin i could just put the stero outs from their live mixer, and put it straight into the mic input of the video camera.....i could do that right? and i'm sure i would get great sound from it, as long as it was mixed pretty well.

 

[telemonster]

Recording with sharp camera

Well, a Microphone input and a Line input are two different
things. I believe you will want to use a Line input to feed
audio from the board.

I haven't tried this, and it is possible that the line level might
be too high. If it is a microphone input, then you most likely
will not get good audio connecting that to the recording
outputs from the mixing board.

The impression I got was at a live show, the output from
the board isn't exactly a studio mix. The mics pick up
sound from the monitors, and parts of the drum kit aren't
setup to be fed thru the PA, etc. The impression I got
was to go with mics actually in the venue. But no one else
has responded to the thread yet with actual experience.

I eagerly await a response from someone with real experience.

 

[Folksinger]

hey guys

I've got some experience I guess you could say, but I'm no pro.. hmm.. I won't go into the details, they are on my website, in the Archive or the BB page; but I am a touring musician who invested in digital recording gear, audio and video, to record and document what I do. I have friends that do a lot more of it than I do. Try talking to Waldo at Nowhereradio.com

you might also consider going to the video boards and searching.... this is more a common subject for video folks, ie, this is what they do more than people with recording set-ups do video. There are articles in the video mags on live sound pretty often, since music video is one of the common uses, adn as well, good sound is nescessary to a lot of video.
in fact... hmmm.. here it is! wow I got some comp copies of videomaker www.videomaker.com and there is a "sound advice" section and an article in the november issue on "stereo recording techniques" by Hal Robertson, who probably knows a lot more than me.

but as for me...

hmmm.. I'm not sure if I should say what I do or comment on your posts (which I can try to remember) but I'll do both a bit...

In that case... I use primarily a singleor double "air mike", this is for a live show, and as well, this technique is used more in studio again as well... just walk around till you find a spot that sounds good and set up a mike there, or two mikes to get a stereo signal, and that is that. If you use the same room all the time, you can probably use the same sweet spot constantly. There may be several, and the best may be up in the ceiling somewhere AWAY from people who talk loud, bump and trip and spill on gear.

I also record the track(s) off the board, and have the track(s) off the camera if it isn't being used as the main audio recorder. This is to give you more input to make a final mix out of (in one case, and because the board sometimes is good or better than the airmike, and finally (in the case of the camera) it gives you the sound from the camera angle which can emphasis movement or close ups.

I use my mackie vlzpro minimixer to run the mikes if I want more than the camera's two inputs, and a lot more flexibility in the mix... I have a sony pd-150 with two xlr in and phantom power... an expensive camera, but it essentially has audio comparable to a built in mike preamp and dat machine.

but just like recording a live show, a big problem is isolating your ears so you do hear what is going to the camera.

I also set up my studio and use it, yes, desktop computer with PARIS, takea about 20 minutes.. I have a AGP card with a TV out and a 9" portable TV for an unobtrusive monitor.. I have to use the magnifier accesory to read and write, but I can watch the meters fine. So then I have multitrack recording and can record everything for post mixing. But I find, generally, this isn't so nescessary, though it does work better.

with modern digital editing the old cuing isn't really nescessary, it is fairly easy to match up the audio track from the camera with the seperately recorded audio track. If you really need it, almost anything will work that coordinates sound and motion a point. But generally, I find it much easier to synch the audio track to the audio track than synch an audio track to the video track. When you digitize the video you capture the audio track and it is in synch and that is what I use to synch the seperately recorded tracks.


One of the big problems in general is to keep people away from any microphones, and cameras, and to not interfere with the performance either, or throw the performer off. Being unobtrusive is an art.

You can get as well some cheap little radio cameras to scatter around as well, hmm, www.x-10.com has 'em for $250 for a set of four with the reciever. That can give you some close-ups without disturbing the performance with the videoing.

enough for now, gotta go.... I can't say I know that much about it, just been doing it.

peace
Folksinger

www.pan.com/folksinger

 

[drstawl]

http://www.wwug.com/forums/dtvprofessional/011105172611.htm

This was the same complaint I heard about my mini-DV cam prior to my purchase. I've been recording the audio separately to CDR and comparing the quality- it's very difficult getting a decent sound out of the camera even though it's recording at DAT resolution. The tape transport is so close to the built-in mic that it will pick up itself recording. And the line in isn't the way to go. Still way too much noise. But for loud content: Does a great job.

It should be pretty easy to resynch an externally recorded digital recording with the DV once it's imported into the PC so you can get a nice clean soundtrack.