recording levels for Echo Layla 24 and Mackie 1604VLZ

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twonky

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Hi, just a quick question.

I have noticed that when I have the Layla's inputs set to -10 the recorded signal is louder than when its inputs are set to +4. I am using a Mackie 1604 VLZ. Should I concern myself w/ this? or just set the levels to -10 if that is what sounds best to me?

Also can anyone give me some pointers on "reamping" I want to take a few tracks in a song I have recorded and pump them thru my PA and then back into the project for what I hope will be a cool effect.

Thanks
Twonky
 
Hey,

I am really not that technical, here, but I have a Layla 24 too. If you change the main outs to -10 as well, the whole mix will get much quieter,and I think the track you have set to +4 (input) will get even quieter than those set to -10.

I think they are both there to allow for differences between professional and consumer equipment. From what I understand of it, professional would be +4, and consumer would be -10. This is all that decibel math shit, and I don't really want to learn this! So, I don't know what half my stuff is...I just mess with them until I have what seems logical with respect to what I have the volume/level up to and whether it jives with the rest of what I'm hearing, or whether it's all the way up and I can't get a signal that matches the others. I pretty much have begun to leave all my stuff on +4. But, I don't know why, or what I should be doing.:)

So, if you're using the main outputs at +4, and something doesn't seem loud enough when you think it should cause you got it cranked all the way up, and you change that one input to -10, then it fits in the mix properly. But, were you to change the main outs to -10, then the whole thing drops down, and I believe if you change things to +4 on the inputs when the main out is set to -10, then that individual input track gets quieter as well, because it assumes your setup needs to be at -10, and +4 is too much level for you.

This may all be a bunch of nonsense. :confused: I know nothing about the technical aspect. I do know how to push buttons, though, and listen. This is what I heard and these are the uneducated decuctions I imposed on the situation. I don't know how many people have these cards on this board--it was hard to find people that did when I thought about buying one. Truthfully, I probably have no business having a breakout box with this many ins and outs, but I'm stupid like that...ha ha.


:D
-Kirstin
 
twonky said:
Should I concern myself w/ this? or just set the levels to -10 if that is what sounds best to me?
Click to expand...
Um, basically, you said what I did, in much shorter language. Ha ha.

Wish I could help you at all with the other. Are you wanting to mic the pa? Or take the outs of it into the sound card again? Or, is this a stupid question?

See ya,
K.
 
Hiya Kristin,

Thanks for the info. I think you are thinking the same thing I am. The -10 sounds fine to me. And when I am not recording thru a Mackie in really bad sounding room I will worry about professional vs. consumer. Although, "professional" makes me feel better about myself and willing to charge hardcore bands w/ 17 year olds more $$. is tht wrong?

As far as the PA reamping idea. I would like to send a recorded signal i.e. stereo drum tracks or vocal (whatever really) from the control room mixer to the PA (which would be blasting loud) and then back into the mixer>Layla. Mostly for effects, soame thing w/ recording guitar clean and then sending thru an amp an putting a whole buncha lard on the signal and recording that.

anyhow, thanks again.

PS how close are you to Omaha?

I dont know what kind of music you are into but my girlfriend's band will be in Omaha in the next two weeks. They are called the Rah Bras and are very cool, think super Punked up Human League mixed w/ freaky modern R&B. Fresh!
 
Kristen explained it pretty well.

What you are doing is telling the Echo what level of signal you are sending to it's inputs. When you set it to +4 it is expecting a hotter signal than when it is set to -10. When it is really an issue is when the device that is sending the signal is +4 and the Echo is set to -10 you will usually have distortion when the sending device is set to unity.

An optimum setup is one where the signal is at unity on the front end and can maintain unity throughout the chain. You don't want unity on the mixer or preamp to be distorting the echo.

The Mackie's usually have two settings on the main buss fader. Unity is set for -10 and if you go a little higher it says +4. The bottom line is do whatever works. The mackies tend to operate better if you don't really push the master buss that hot so keeping the Echo set to -10 and using a lower overal level on the mackie would probably make sense.
 
Hiya Twonk,

I am in Lincoln, actually, so I'm pretty close to Omaha. Don't go there too much, but your girlfriend's band sounds fun. Did you say where she would be playing? I've sang some places there, maybe she'll be going someplace I've been, and I can give her a heads up on the place...maybe she's been there.

Thanks Tex...for the support. :D

As for the other deal, does the pa have main outs on it besides what you'd hook the loud ass speakers up to? Actually, maybe if you don't need the speakers, you would just use those outputs anyway. I will likely make absolutely no sense here.

I don't know jack squat about the pa, but you should be able to take the outputs in your Layla (1 and 2 are the default stereo output channels directly into an in on your pa, don't know if you'd need left/right or left only, oh you said stereo, my bad. Then you'd bring the output of the pa back into a track on your Layla, or into the mackie, then out of it, into the Layla. I don't know if you could take the PA out and direct it straight in to the Layla. It would do SOMETHING, I'm just not sure what.

But, this is a bit over my head, unless I could look at everything out in front of me. I usually just look at everything and imagine in my head visually the signal's path. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't! LOL. I just experiment generally until it works, although one day, I'll probably be breaking something! That day is gonna hurt. It's the way I figure this stuff out though...

I guess this is another question I have regarding this question...do you NEED to take the already recorded track from the mackie, or can you just take it straight out of the computer from your Layla? This second option should actually work, and then you may need to bring it back into the Mackie from the PA, onto a different track, then mix the two as you wish, or just double it onto the track you've already got? Not sure what the effect is you're trying to accomplish, but I don't ever get that far myself anyway!!!!! I never even finish my songs.

I bet the Mackie has some inserts that could be implemented well in this usage, but I don't have a Mackie. And it's likely you wouldn't even need to bother with those for any reason.

Was that at all helpful? Or a big circle of nothing?

Kirstin
 
Kristen has pretty good advice again but I would use the Mackie's Aux send when reamping so you have more control over the input gain into the PA or guitar amp. I would assume you want to mic the PA or amp to get the full effect.

The two main issues are when you send to the PA you will be sending a line level signal so you need to go into a line level input. If you want to go into a mic preamp you will need to use a DI to knock the signal down to mic level.

Going into a guitar amp can be a little more tricky because the gain going into the amp can drasticly affect your tone. There are special reamp boxes that will knock a line level signal down to instrument level. You can also just use the output gain on the mackie and turn the signal down so it doesn't completely distort the guitar preamp. Although sometimes driving a really hot signal into the guitar preamp can give you the sound you want. Just play around until you get a sound you like.

I like to play around with reamping vocals through guitar amps and I just use a line level send from the board into a distortion pedal and then into the amp. Seems to work fine. You can even skip the amp and just create an effects loop with your guitar pedals for some cool effects.
 
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