T
tom18222
yes
Should i record them all at just below peaking and mix after, or should i set the levels first? i assume the first.
Dogman
Unkle Ticklefingers
You should record leaving yourself some headroom...just in case.
R
RAMI
Guest
Yes the first. Except that you want to record a lot lower than "just below peaking". (I'm assuming we're talking about digital recording).
ez_willis
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RAMI said:
I've heard this a lot, by people that know waaaaay more than I do, but I can't recall why it is so important to do so. I'm not questioning it, I'd just like to know why it is bad to get each track just below peaking.
O
ofajen
Daddy-O Daddy-O Baby
ez_willis said:
Mainly because you're likely to get overs and a generally "distressed" sound and besides, you shouldn't give a rat's hind end exactly where the peaks are so long as they don't reach 0 dBFS. They don't tell you anything about how loud the signal sounds.
You should track with enough headroom that you don't have to worry about the possibility of getting overs. Monitor with a VU or digital averaging meter and keep the loud portions at some standard level around -20 dBFS (-24 dBFS would be OK, too) and you should be in good shape. Don't worry about exactly where the absolute, individual peaks are, as long as they don't reach 0 dBFS.
Cheers,
Otto
V
Vullkunnraven
New member
If I may Hijack this...
Any recommendations for those of us tracking on ProTools LE who only have PT's digital mixer to monitor peaks? Is getting a dedicated outboard VU meter (provided your pre's do not already have one) recommeded? If so, any particular units come to mind?
I struggle with peaks and levels all the time while tracking...
Thanks,
Ari
Any recommendations for those of us tracking on ProTools LE who only have PT's digital mixer to monitor peaks? Is getting a dedicated outboard VU meter (provided your pre's do not already have one) recommeded? If so, any particular units come to mind?
I struggle with peaks and levels all the time while tracking...
Thanks,
Ari
brendandwyer
New member
Vullkunnraven said:
a meter is a meter, i believe you can change the unit of measure on the channel meters in PT, but don't ask me how.
I would leave quite a bit of room. If there is a green segment, an orange segment and a red, stay in the green, allow for the orange, FEAR THE RED
X
xstatic
New member
ez_willis said:
Actually, I would track more conservatively not because of the fear of digital clipping, but because of the way your equipment is setup. In order to get a track to clip a digital converter, than you have gone WAY past the optimal point of your analog front end. Remember, in the analog domain we strive to get our signals to average at about 0dbvu. The digital equivalent of that is roughly about -18dbfs. If you follow these longstanding reccomendations, you will rarely have to worry about a digital over and your tracks will all take on a whole new depth, clarity, and width.
J
jonnyc
New member
Vullkunnraven said:
My recommendation....use your ears.
Fletcher
New member
The "getting the signal close to peaking" thing is a hold over from the days when 16 bit digital recorders ruled the planet... when you're using 24 bit digital recording the need to get things as high on the scale as possible is not that important.
The "word length" associated with 16 bit recording did not provide very good resolution and the lower the level the lower the resolution would be... with the word length associated with 24 bit recording the resolution is way better so the need to go to the top of the meter is really no more.
I hope this is of some assistance.
Peace.
The "word length" associated with 16 bit recording did not provide very good resolution and the lower the level the lower the resolution would be... with the word length associated with 24 bit recording the resolution is way better so the need to go to the top of the meter is really no more.
I hope this is of some assistance.
Peace.
ez_willis
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Still not clear.
The answers seem to lean towards 'it's not necessary to get the tracks as hot as possible', rather than answering why it's important to record 'a lot lower than just below peaking'.
In my mind, it seems like as long as the signal isn't clipping, that's all that matters.
I understand why in the past in the analog realm it was common to push the signal near or slightly above the peaks, and why there is no benefit to doing so when recording digitally, but I'm still not clear why people feel there should be so much headroom. Again, I'm not doubting that it's important, I'm just curious why.
The answers seem to lean towards 'it's not necessary to get the tracks as hot as possible', rather than answering why it's important to record 'a lot lower than just below peaking'.
In my mind, it seems like as long as the signal isn't clipping, that's all that matters.
I understand why in the past in the analog realm it was common to push the signal near or slightly above the peaks, and why there is no benefit to doing so when recording digitally, but I'm still not clear why people feel there should be so much headroom. Again, I'm not doubting that it's important, I'm just curious why.
legionserial
New member
If you are going to be adding effects, or boosting anything with an EQ, you may need headroom.
Say you have a track thats not loud enough in the mix, but that track is already just below clipping. you can't turn it up without it clipping, so you would have to turn everything else down. Which is a pain in the ass. So the headroom helps there.
If 1 track is just below clipping, then imagine what 50 tracks, each just below clipping, is going to do your master output....
Say you have a track thats not loud enough in the mix, but that track is already just below clipping. you can't turn it up without it clipping, so you would have to turn everything else down. Which is a pain in the ass. So the headroom helps there.
If 1 track is just below clipping, then imagine what 50 tracks, each just below clipping, is going to do your master output....
ez_willis
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I'm in the process of recording drum tracks for three songs.
I use 7 mics that go into my Tascam tm d-1000(digital mixer), then each of the 7 tracks are brought into Logic via a Hammerfall HDSP 9652.
Why is it important to have each of those 7 tracks well below the peak?
I think you may be onto something with the eq boost. Anyone else have anything?
I use 7 mics that go into my Tascam tm d-1000(digital mixer), then each of the 7 tracks are brought into Logic via a Hammerfall HDSP 9652.
Why is it important to have each of those 7 tracks well below the peak?
I think you may be onto something with the eq boost. Anyone else have anything?
ez_willis
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Sorry if I hijacked your thread, Tom####. It's related though. 
Dogman
Unkle Ticklefingers
I think since drums are so percussive, you need room to keep some dynamics. If you kill the dynamics by making everything too hot, it can sound fake. With a good setup, I'm sure right below Zero will still sound fine, BUT.....you want to make sure that you don't overdo it. It's like a good, distorted guitar. Really loud, it might sound good solo, but how will it fit in a mix? In the mix is where it's most important. You will need some headroom for the entire mix, so having drums recorded near 0 is not really necessary. If you get a good recording, near zero, it should work. But you should probably always err on the conservative side. It's easier to deal with.Dogman said:
Just my $1.25 worth.
RideTheCrash
Member
Because if -18dBFS is roughly 0dBVU, then you are overdriving your converters when you go way above that. I commonly see it described around here as trying to keep your signal in the "sweet spot" of the converters. Trust me, leaving headroom like that was the biggest improvement of the mixes in a long time.
T
travelin travis
New member
I've been aiming to not clip any tracks and end up with an overall mix volume that is also safe from clipping. If I lay down a bunch of tracks that peak at -6, I'm probably going to have to pull down my master fader (which probably isn't a big deal). I say do what you think is right and fuck everyone else. 
The only thing that makes any sense to me out of all this clip not clip bullshit is: be careful of clipping your preamps. It's easy to do. Say I'm di'ing a bass with my vtb1. If a have the preamp gain up high enough so that my peak level on my software is meter is reading -6, there's a damn good chance that I'm clipping my preamp. My sound card input is probably perfectly safe but not the preamp.
As far as the rms level of a track..........what the hell does that have to do with anything when it comes to clipping a sound card input? Nothing that I can tell.
The only thing that makes any sense to me out of all this clip not clip bullshit is: be careful of clipping your preamps. It's easy to do. Say I'm di'ing a bass with my vtb1. If a have the preamp gain up high enough so that my peak level on my software is meter is reading -6, there's a damn good chance that I'm clipping my preamp. My sound card input is probably perfectly safe but not the preamp.
As far as the rms level of a track..........what the hell does that have to do with anything when it comes to clipping a sound card input? Nothing that I can tell.
C
chestwick91
New member
For Sure Give Yourself Headroom, I Do It At -6db But It Depends...
TelePaul
J to the R O C
I had a question about peak levels in anotehr thread - Farview told me -6, and he knows his drums.
legionserial
New member
ez_willis said:
As someone previously mentioned, if you are tracking just below clipping, then whatever piece of analog gear (ie preamp etc) that you are using is going to be being pushed way harder than it should. If its going in at -0.1dbfs, then you are pushing the analog side far to hard for it to get to that level, as it's going to be going at 18 or so db above the analog clipping level of 0dbVU. Surely that's going to detriment the sound. Or that's how I understand it anyway.
Also as I kind of mentioned, having those 7 tracks just below peak (ie -0.1dbfs or whatever. That may be fine with 1 track, but it's pointless recording them that high, because you are just going to have to turn them down. Because logically speaking, 7 tracks at -0.1dbfs each, all playing together is going to result in clipping your master output somewhere along the line until you turn it down.
I don't record my drums, I use MIDI, but I mix each drum piece down to its own .wav file, I usually aim for a peak on each piece of no more than -6. Guitars and bass get and everage of -18. By the time I'm done, I usually find I don't really have to turn anything down or up much, everything seems just about level already. I used to track everything at just below clipping. Since I have started giving myself headroom, my mixes have sounded better unmixed, than the mixes tracked just below clipping sound after hours of work on them. Just in general, I recall having so much more work to do on the stuff I did just below clippping, and none of it was fun, and I was never anywhere near happy with the sound. So much so that I am actually retracking all that shit at the moment. Some of my tunes end up with 50 tracks. If all of those tracks were at just below clipping I would have to pull everything down to a stupid degree just to get the levels right...