Recording drums help

[BlackSquire]

Ok,
my band is currently recording home recorded demos and need some help. When we record the drums we have 2 overheads, 1 snare mic and 1 bass drum mic. Its a decent enough kit but the mics are very cheap drum mics. The cymbals sound like 'tin' and i was wondering if that was the mics or the position of the mics? Any hints or tips would be great. We were maybe looking into getting some better overheads. Any suggestions? We are looking to spend around $150 for each overhead.

Our practice room is sound proof so there are not a whole lot of acoustics. Would you recommend recording drums where there are more acoustics?

Also, would a Shure SM58 be any good as a room mic for drums or anything else for the drums?
Link >>> http://www.shure.com/americas/products/microphones/sm/sm58-vocal-microphone


Thanks.
and if you would like to listen to the tracks to get an idea of 'tin' sounding cymbals the links are below.
http://www.myspace.com/black_squire
http://www.facebook.com/blacksquireband

 

[Chili]

Hey, welcome to the site. Please post your question in only one forum. I deleted you other posts and kept this one as it's in the most appropriate place.

I don't have answers to your questions, but you should definitely check out the stickie by Greg_L at the top of the Drum forum. He goes into a lot of details on how to get a good drum recording even with cheap mics.

have fun!!

 

[ermghoti]

How decent is "pretty decent?" What brand/model are the cymbals? What are the dimensions of your room?

I personally would not be grabbing a 58 as a room mic, but use what's around, worse stuff has made it to major label releases. $150 an OH gets you into useable Chinese stuff: I use Studio Projects B1s from time to time, the samples of the Kel HM1 have always sounded great to me, some people like the MXL 603, I've used the Carvin sort-of fakish Shure 81 knockoff thingy... usually, smething else is crewing up your sound worse than a mediocre mic will.

 

[Bguzaldo]

Hey man welcome! I would say first off post a little more info, never hurts to give as much info as possible, that way its easier for people to figure out where the weak points are in your signal chain. Let us know what kind of drums he's playing, what kind of cymbals, is he a hard hitter or a finess guy, how will you be recording this (24 track to tape, 8 channel interface, iPhone, etc.)

Right away I'll do some of the other guys here a favor and tell you to look up the recorderman or Glyn Johns overhead configuration. If your room sounds good and the kit is tuned well, this will get you started with some pretty good sounds to work with.

http://homerecording.about.com/od/recordingtutorials/a/glyn_johns.htm

http://www.blaxploitation.com/drums/

hope this helps!
-Barrett

 

[stevieb]

You might do well with one AT-30-series, or maybe even a 20-series condenser for overheads. I KNOW you would do well with a 40-series, but they are pricy (and I am lucky to own two.)

Use a condenser for a room mic, not a dynamic. Does not have to be high-end. An AT 20- or 30- would do the trick there, too.

Put that dynamic SM58 between the two rack toms, and another on the floor tom.

Yes, there are better mics for any of those apps, but those will do the job.

 

[filthy]

Just rent some decent SM81's or any other condenser commonly used for overheads for the weekend from your local music store and see what happens. Probably cost you $10.

If you are recording in a basement with a low, untreated ceiling, or any kind of highly reflective unfinished room you are likely going to have phase issues and washy, thin cymbal sounds because the cymbals are reflecting back almost immediately off of the ceiling. Great mic's, especially overheads, will sound like crap regardless of brand/cost if the room is crappy to begin with. Guys always look at their equipment first when recordings/mixes sound like crap - the mic is doing it's job perfectly and is accurately showing you how lousy your room sounds.

For true demo purposes - having an example of what your band sounds like - don't get too fussy about mic's and positions, etc. If you drummer is good, they should be able to sound good with just a room mic. Or search "Recorderman" drum miking and only use the floor tom-side condenser - this may help get enough cymbal in the mix without letting in too much poop.

Also, see if your local music store has a Zoom or Tascam hand held portable recorder to use. I have used both with better results for demos/working copies of songs than fussing with close mic's etc. The zoom is really neat and was designed for band rehearsals - it has a omni pattern setting and you just stick it on a mic stand in the centre of the room with the band around it. It records as .wav and has input level controls. The results are surprisingly good - definitely good enough for Myspace quality examples of your band.

Hope this helps.

 

[filthy]

...and sometimes a generous amount of compression can kinda tame overheads in a small room.