Recording A Violin

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DomB

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OK. So. I looked through all the FAQ, and through some forum threads and I couldn't find anyhting to answer my question.

Does anyone know what mic should be used to record a violin? Would something like an sm57 work? I am just getting started recording me and some friends, who play guitar and sing, and I can find nothing about recording violins. I have a G4 that I would be recording onto.

Speaking of which, does anyone have an opinion about a cost effective way of coverting the analog signal from the mics to digital for the computer? I suppose thats for another Forum.

Any advice would be much apreaciated.
 
First question is, do you want it to sound like a violin, or a fiddle? If the answer is fiddle, you are best off with a ribbon mic. If the answer is violin, you need a condenser mic, preferably one that is not too bright. Placement is very critical for a good violin sound, usually you need to get the mic 2' to 3' away, and depending on the mic and desired tone, usually at the level of the violin, or higher (brighter tone). Obviously the room comes into play, so, generally speaking, the bigger the better. Placement for fiddle with a ribbon mic is easier, you can get about 12" away and above.

An SM57 is usually not desirable for violin--or fiddle!
 
lol nice one.

Ya you can mess around with the placement of a nice LDC mic. Sometimes close micing right up near the strings may work but most likely 2-3 in. will do you nicely.
 
DAS19 said:
lol nice one.

Ya you can mess around with the placement of a nice LDC mic. Sometimes close micing right up near the strings may work but most likely 2-3 in. will do you nicely.
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2-3 feet, you mean. 2-3 inches will give you a sound like fighting cats.:)
 
1st of all, a ribbon mic or a condenser mic wont make anything sound like a fiddle or a violin. It is how the instrument is played and what is played that gives a violin a fiddle sound.

2nd - experiment.

If all you have is a 57, use it, but experiment with it and find where it sounds best. It might not be where you would think.

I was at a friends house the other day, and I had a session open that I had recorded. It was a singer songwriter piano/vocal thing. After hearing the song, the friend pulls out his mandolin and begins to tool around and make a part. Unfortunatly all we had was his mbox and a 57 without a clip. I found where I wanted the 57 and duct taped it to a make-shift stand.

What do you know but it sounded decent and the part was good so when I played it for the artist, she loved it and it made it on the record.

Sometimes (read: all of the time) it is not how it is recorded, but what is being recorded.

>>AG
 
I had good luck using the MSH-4, IIRC, for a live outdoor wedding, though I might have been using the MSH-2. I -think- I used an MSH-2 on flute and an MSH-4 on violin, but I could have that backwards. I'm pretty sure I used the MSH-4 on the violin, though, to take a little of the edge off.

I used an AT2020 on the cello, and a Studio Projects B3 in figure-8 mode for the minister (back) and bridge/groom (front), with my VP88 in battery mode to capture sound for the camcorder. Yeah. Lot of condensers out that day. To anyone who says condensers aren't usable for live sound, I say ":p". :D
 
dgatwood said:
I used an AT2020 on the cello, and a Studio Projects B3 in figure-8 mode for the minister (back) and bridge/groom (front), with my VP88 in battery mode to capture sound for the camcorder. Yeah. Lot of condensers out that day. To anyone who says condensers aren't usable for live sound, I say ":p". :D
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I remember a few years before the KSM series came out, I had a Shure catalog and I used to drool over the SM81 and the VP88 because I couldn't afford them (it was before eBay too, so it was tough to find used stuff). So I got the SM94 instead, which I used for guitars, overheads, and fiddles, etc., live or for recording. I used it on everything. I didn't have phantom power, and the SM94 could use an internal AA battery. Very handy with a Tascam. It was sort of a stupid mic ;)

But my point is, the Shure catalog back then hardly even contemplated studio recording. I mean, yeah the 57 and 81 have always been used in the studio, but that was not Shure's focus at all. Must have still been a pretty small market. So they were pumping the Beta series condensers, the VP88, and yeah even the 94 and 81 for live sound or with the VP88, location recording.
 
mshilarious said:
I remember a few years before the KSM series came out, I had a Shure catalog and I used to drool over the SM81 and the VP88 because I couldn't afford them (it was before eBay too, so it was tough to find used stuff). So I got the SM94 instead, which I used for guitars, overheads, and fiddles, etc., live or for recording. I used it on everything. I didn't have phantom power, and the SM94 could use an internal AA battery. Very handy with a Tascam. It was sort of a stupid mic ;)

But my point is, the Shure catalog back then hardly even contemplated studio recording. I mean, yeah the 57 and 81 have always been used in the studio, but that was not Shure's focus at all. Must have still been a pretty small market. So they were pumping the Beta series condensers, the VP88, and yeah even the 94 and 81 for live sound or with the VP88, location recording.
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I'm so happy I have affordable SM81s now :D Even though I bought mine new :(
 
DomB said:
(snip) Speaking of which, does anyone have an opinion about a cost effective way of coverting the analog signal from the mics to digital for the computer? I suppose thats for another Forum.

Any advice would be much apreaciated.
Click to expand...

To convert analog to digital... get an audio interface! Search around the "Computer Recording and Soundcards" forum.
 
violin (and/or fiddle) are difficult to record well. you don't necessarily need a mic that is "mellow" or "flat" at the top, but you do need one whose high-end bump doesn't conflict with the strident nature of the instrument. some ribbons are quite nice in this regard (m160, etc).

you also need a room with a decently high ceiling, as like drums, violin needs some room to "bloom", and for the most part violins project upward. you don't typically want the mic too close to the instrument as you'll get more bow/string noise, so you need to get it up high above the instrument.

to be honest, unless you've got the mic and room for this......i would check to see if the player has a pickup (etc) that they use for live performance. you can generally take a DI of that and work with it just fine. apply some judicious eq, reverb and delay and roll with it.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
violin (and/or fiddle) are difficult to record well. you don't necessarily need a mic that is "mellow" or "flat" at the top, but you do need one whose high-end bump doesn't conflict with the strident nature of the instrument. some ribbons are quite nice in this regard (m160, etc).

you also need a room with a decently high ceiling, as like drums, violin needs some room to "bloom", and for the most part violins project upward. you don't typically want the mic too close to the instrument as you'll get more bow/string noise, so you need to get it up high above the instrument.

cheers,
wade
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While there's no single right answer for this, this best fits my experience with violin tracking. Unless your looking for the scratch of the bow, you want the mics up high in a big room with high ceilings. This is an instrument where I usually prefer a spaced pair over x/y, or better yet, m/s.
Re-reading your post, I'm guessing your not quite into m/s technique... yet, so just remember that close micing a violin in a small room equals scratchy, one dimensional, more fiddle like sound (which may be right in some cases), and that micing a good 8-12' away up high in a big room equals a smoother open sound with more depth from the combination of direct sound and room reflections.
 
Thank you all for your prompt replies, and helpful advice.

As regards to sound (fiddle vs. "violin") I would prefer a cleaner less scratchy sound, and I think I have a room where I could record that would let my violin bloom, but I would like something that isn't too dependant on that.

I looked at the MSH-4, and it seems to have a pretty reasonable price, from what I have seen of other mics on the market. Does anyone know of the quality of it?

mrface2112 spoke of the high-end of mics being to low for some of the violins pitches. Did I get that right? anyhow, it technical terms, how much high end do you need on a mic for a violin?

Just like me to pick a hard instrument to record, so thank you all once agian for your help.

Dom
 
When I have been forced to record violin in a low ceiling room I have asked the violinist if they can sit down to play. It gives me more space between the mic and the instrument. Some fiddlers are reluctant to sit however. All in all, a big room is usually best though.
 
AT831b

Hi,

Audio Technica has a lavalier mic that comes with an instrument clip. It's a cardiod condensor. It is very popular in TV studios.

I clip it onto my acoustic guitar and it sounds great. It's supposed to work good with violin too although I haven't tried it.

Thus far I have been unable to use this mic for live sound. It may be because it's clipped to a guitar but it feeds back way before I can get even moderate volume.

But for recording where there is no amplification. Tops.

Thanks,

Hairy Larry
 
AKG C12VR sounds great on violin, why not pick up a few? Full Compass has a display model on sale for $3800 :D:D
 
DomB said:
I looked at the MSH-4, and it seems to have a pretty reasonable price, from what I have seen of other mics on the market. Does anyone know of the quality of it?
Click to expand...

It's made by the first responder in this thread. :D
 
Quote:Originally Posted by DomB
I looked at the MSH-4, and it seems to have a pretty reasonable price, from what I have seen of other mics on the market. Does anyone know of the quality of it?

It's made by the first responder in this thread.
Click to expand...

Well thats pretty cool. Makes me more at ease for some reason. Probably that he takes the time to help people like me.
 
DomB said:
mrface2112 spoke of the high-end of mics being to low for some of the violins pitches. Did I get that right?
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no, you misunderstood me. ;)

all mics have an internal "eq curve" to them. this is what helps some mics sound more "present" or "bright" or "dark", etc. this is a combination of many things--including but not limited to the capsule, the body, the electronics and components and the grille of the mic itself.

that said, many cheaper mics (especially those of chinese origin) have a considerable rise in the high end. this makes them bright (sometimes not a good thing). on some sources (like vocals) this brightness can help make a track sparkle or shine. however, on some sources this can simply lead to a harsh sounding recording.

in short, coupling a violin with a mic with an abrasive high end will give you a shrill, strident, painful to listen to recording. so if you're doing contemporary top40 pop country music, you'll be in the ballpark! :D :eek:

this is why studios have lots of mics--so they can fit the proper mic to the source.


cheers,
wade
 
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