recording 20 voices

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mh1000

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Hi,

My name is Nick and I'm doing a research study where I need to record 20 children in a classroom scenario. Actually, make that 21, as there is also the teacher. My goal is to get 21 seperate chanels that all started recoding at the same time. Basically, I don't want to use 21 seperate recording devices and then have to align the WAV files. I'm going to use 21 microphones, either desk top, or wireless, I haven't got the budget yet, so I'm not sure if wireless will be possible. I want these 21 mics to then go through some type of audio interface that ouputs it onto my computer as 21 seperate channels in a multitrack recording application. I currently use Adobe Audition 1.5, but am open to suggestion. I've looked at mixers, but I don't want to mix the 21 channels down, so they're no good.

I done some web research, but there doen't seem to be an interface that clearly states it will keep the recorded channels independant. I'm a newbie here, so can't post the links to what I found.

Well, that's my mission, and you guys know more than I could ever dream of knowing, so any advice here would be great.

Cheers,
 
If you want to record 21 simultaneous and discrete tracks, you will need an interface that can accept that number. A single interface to cope with that number is going to be very expensive. Others may be able to recommend something.

Alternatively, you can use something like the Presonus StudioLive which is a digital mixer (16 or 24 channel) that delivers discrete channels to a PC via firewire.

Or you can try daisy-chaining three eight channel interfaces.

All these options are expensive. All involve a significant technical learning curve.

Do you need to record them all at once?
 
Hi you want a firewire sound interface such as the Alesis io26, then you will need to get an extra8 channels on top of that to get 16 by buying an adat rack of mic pre's. Behringer do a cheap one AD800 I think? But you got to think about how your going to record 21 children seperately? You will need 21 mics, 21 cables, 21 mic stands or clips, 21 inputs on your sound card?
I think what you want to do sounds little over ambitious and you could re think.
Unless you had good quality directional mics on every child it would be almost impossible to keep the mic focused on them without picking up a lot of th others hence why choirs tend to be recorded with just stereo mics. If you used condenser mics you will pick up every child in the room on each mic due to their sensitivity.. You got to think about money also and quality, if you hired two really really good condensers and just a two channel sound card you would be getting much better quality for your budget.
Honestly I think you would be better off with a few ambient condenser around the room picking up groups of children.

Whats the recording for is it a choir?
 
Alesis io 26 x 1
£300
Behringer ADA800 x 2
£300
This would give you 24 channels then you need:

Lapel mics... x 21
£693

You would need at least 21 XLR cables:
£126

this adds up to: £1419

These are the cheapest devices in their field and not exactly the best quality. I can recommend some better options if you like. What is this study for? Explain the job we can recommend better for you. Seems you cannot record all the children separately like Gecko Zzed advised as you would have thought of that already and hence the work "study" sounds more like recording the children in their natural environment, its not musical?
 
And forget wireless mics! Interference, drop-outs, batteries dying ...
 
mjbphotos said:
And forget wireless mics! Interference, drop-outs, batteries dying ...
Click to expand...

Only if you don't know what you are doing.

Wireless systems very much larger than this work every day in the West End of London and on Broadway without any problems.

BUT

An IM-free 21 channel system will certainly not be cheap - a budget of about £1,000 per channel would be needed, really, to get this system working I think. So, say about £25,000 for the system as you really need to look at Sennheiser G3 500 series as a very minimum, preferably 2000 series.
 
John Willett said:
Only if you don't know what you are doing.

Wireless systems very much larger than this work every day in the West End of London and on Broadway without any problems.

BUT

An IM-free 21 channel system will certainly not be cheap - a budget of about £1,000 per channel would be needed, really, to get this system working I think. So, say about £25,000 for the system as you really need to look at Sennheiser G3 500 series as a very minimum, preferably 2000 series.
Click to expand...


Wow! They are expensive alright! :-)
 
He's saying he wants every child and the teacher all on separate channels.
 
Instead of recording all at the same time I would start with the teacher and then record each child at a time to achieve 21 tracks.
 
moresound said:
Instead of recording all at the same time I would start with the teacher and then record each child at a time to achieve 21 tracks.
Click to expand...

He said:
"My name is Nick and I'm doing a research study where I need to record 20 children in a classroom scenario. "

I think he needs them to all be together, but then still only need say a shotgun mic, or ambient mics like a shoot. Lol I am intrigued.
 
WOW! I don't know then. Maybe 21 different computers each with an interface of 1 or 2 channels.

I know that in our school, in the computer lab, this could be accomplished with out a problem
Just down load the Reaper software into each computer set everything up in the computer lab and away you go!
 
moresound said:
WOW! I don't know then. Maybe 21 different computers each with an interface of 1 or 2 channels.

I know that in our school, in the computer lab, this could be accomplished with out a problem
Just down load the Reaper software into each computer set everything up in the computer lab and away you go!
Click to expand...

LOL :laughings:
 
John Willett said:
Only if you don't know what you are doing.

Wireless systems very much larger than this work every day in the West End of London and on Broadway without any problems.

BUT

An IM-free 21 channel system will certainly not be cheap - a budget of about £1,000 per channel would be needed, really, to get this system working I think. So, say about £25,000 for the system as you really need to look at Sennheiser G3 500 series as a very minimum, preferably 2000 series.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah, but this guy is doing a research study in a grade school, I doubt he's got that kind of budget.
 
Thanks for all the responses. Yep, it is critical each child's audio is as independant as possible, and as natural to a class room scenario as possible too. So, they really do need to be mic'd individually. I'm not the scientist, just the tech odd job guy, and all I know is it's a study of 2nd language acquisition in non native learners in a classroom enviroment. My remit was to come up with a solution to record 21 individuals simultaneously, but individually. I said it would make life so much easier if they had a max of 16, but they weren't going for that. Oh, and there's another complication, it needs to be mobile. If we could build a permanent lab it would be fine, but it has to be able to all fit in the trunk/boot of a car.

Disease8's option is certainly within budget. It think I'll have about 8,000 - 10,000 euros to play with. It doesn't have to be studio quality either. It just needs to be clear as to what each child is saying, with as little ambient, or background voices as possible.

I do have experience of recording subjects in a lab scenario, but this request is way out of my league.

Once again, thanks for the responses. I had an idea a quality set-up would be out of budget range, but it's nice to see there are options. As long as I can avoid using 21 flash recorders I'll be happy.
 
moresound said:
WOW! I don't know then. Maybe 21 different computers each with an interface of 1 or 2 channels.

I know that in our school, in the computer lab, this could be accomplished with out a problem
Just down load the Reaper software into each computer set everything up in the computer lab and away you go!
Click to expand...

i would have to agree with this. if your computer lab is capable of doing this (each computer has garageband or something like that loaded) this seems like the easiest way to go without buying an expensive interface. it would be a lot of work to get all the computers into one room, but this would be the cheapest. that is if you don't have to buy 11 computers. also, if each kid has a powerful enough laptop, use theirs.

then (like moresound said) record 1 on the left, 2 on the right. next computer; 3 on the left, 4 on the right... etc. just remember that at the very beginning, once all of the computers are recording (AT THE SAME TIME) to get the class to be quiet and add a 'pop' or 'click' sound loud enough to register on each mic. bouce all of the recordings down to MP3, AIFF or WAV files and download them onto one computer. drop them into your mixing software and there is your 21 separate tracks.

oh... one last thing is that you will probably want another 2 channels for a L/R stereo pair to be in the room somewhere as a 'room' sound. this would basically be your reverb and you would want to use a pair of condenser mics for this. this would be what you add into the background to make things sound 'natural' (which was something you said you were trying to achieve.)
 
8-10k Euros does give you a lot of wiggle room.

I suppose the biggest trick would just be finding an interface that meets your needs. A computer (laptop even since portability is a concern) buff enough to handle 21 simultaneous tracks isn't a huge deal. 21 mics, stands, and XLR cables will set you back a few hundred. (You can probably expect to spend more on tape to keep those cables in line when you move from classroom to classroom! :D )

Just the interface will be really tough to find.
 
mh1000 said:
Thanks for all the responses. Yep, it is critical each child's audio is as independant as possible, and as natural to a class room scenario as possible too. So, they really do need to be mic'd individually. I'm not the scientist, just the tech odd job guy, and all I know is it's a study of 2nd language acquisition in non native learners in a classroom enviroment. My remit was to come up with a solution to record 21 individuals simultaneously, but individually. I said it would make life so much easier if they had a max of 16, but they weren't going for that. Oh, and there's another complication, it needs to be mobile. If we could build a permanent lab it would be fine, but it has to be able to all fit in the trunk/boot of a car.

Disease8's option is certainly within budget. It think I'll have about 8,000 - 10,000 euros to play with. It doesn't have to be studio quality either. It just needs to be clear as to what each child is saying, with as little ambient, or background voices as possible.

I do have experience of recording subjects in a lab scenario, but this request is way out of my league.

Once again, thanks for the responses. I had an idea a quality set-up would be out of budget range, but it's nice to see there are options. As long as I can avoid using 21 flash recorders I'll be happy.
Click to expand...

OK - in this instance it would be best not to use tie mics, but to use headmics.

You can get these as omni or cardioid from various different manufacturers at varying prices. Sennheiser do special child size versions of their HSP-2 and HSP-4 headmics.

I would go for the -ew version with the lockable jack and use the adaptor to XLR (either the Sennheiser one, or Canford Audio do a generic cheaper version) - this way the headmic. will plug into a Sennheiser evolution series radiomic. if the budget allows at a later date (or you hire, or you need one or two radios for people who may move about).

Using a headmic. keeps the microphone a constant distance from the mouth and the sound will not vary with head movements.

Being close to the mouth you will also get rid of most of the room noise.

An omni will not have proximity effect, but will still get rid of most of the room noise as it's close to the mouth (inverse-square law).

Oh - look at the JoeCo Black Box for the recorder. It's a 24-track 1U recorder that will record on a USB hard-drive which you can then plug into your DAW back at base later. Personally, I would avoid recording directly to computer if you can.

In it's easiest form, I would get 2 or 3 inexpensive mixers (3 if 8-way, 2 if 12 or 16-way, probably cheaper than a 24-way) for phantom power, level control and mic. pre. - take the direct outs into the JoeCo Black Box and record.

I hope this helps.
 
"Oh, and there's another complication, it needs to be mobile. If we could build a permanent lab it would be fine, but it has to be able to all fit in the trunk/boot of a car."

Mobile! Your not getting a break are you.
 
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