record midi controll messages in avi

[Bobbonkers]

Hi, I'm new here and have a daft question.
can you convert and record midi and dmx control messages to audio, say the left channel of a .wav or .mp3 file and then have them coverted back on playback

 

[drstawl]

Hi, I'm new here and have a daft question.
can you convert and record midi and dmx control messages to audio, say the left channel of a .wav or .mp3 file and then have them coverted back on playback

I'm sure this could be done. The old C-64 computer used a cassette recorder to store byte strings that are no different than MIDI messages.

 

[altitude909]

Yup, pre midi synths did this also to back up patch banks. Problem is there wont be any standardized protocols for this since most of those formats were unique to the device but looking at how tapes operated with old computers would be a good place to start. Dont expect to be able to do it in realtime, old school tape storage was GLACIAL. A patch bank that took an instant to transmit over midi would take minutes to restore from tape

 

[dintymoore]

When I was doing a duo with MIDI backup in the late 80's I remember an ad in one of the popular music mags, probably Electronic Musician or Contemporary Keyboard. It was for a small device that I believe had a regular cassette in it and the claim was that you could record MIDI to it and it would in real time play it back and send out MIDI. I don't recall the manufacturer and it didn't become mainstream, but it was what I think you're asking about.

It wasn't a tape backup system like most all the MIDI devices had back then, but a real time analog tape to MIDI device that you'd use at gigs in place of a sequencer.

There is no "normal" way that I know of to do that.

 

[ALS]

Hi, I'm new here and have a daft question.
can you convert and record midi and dmx control messages to audio, say the left channel of a .wav or .mp3 file and then have them coverted back on playback

Are you asking if you can convert your midi tracks to audio? as in, lets say in Logic Pro you have an instrument track that you recorded your midi to and want that to convert it to audio to save CPU usage? If so yes this can be done by simply setting the out of the instrument track to an open bus (15-16) and have an open audio track with the input set to bus (15-16). arm the audio track to record and it will convert to audio. Although from the above responses I don't believe this is what you are asking but just in case there it is.

Edit: if its along the lines of the above responses on recording to an analog source for just the midi sequence. I would try recording it to tape and seeing if it works. In the studio it's normal practice to recorded SMPTE TimeCode to tape. So I can't see why it won't work for midi. I could be wrong as I have never tried it myself or had a need to.

 

[Toddskins]

confusion

Hi, I'm new here and have a daft question.
can you convert and record midi and dmx control messages to audio, say the left channel of a .wav or .mp3 file and then have them coverted back on playback

As you can see, it's not exactly clear what you are doing, and wish to do.

Back in 1985 I had an Oberheim Matrix-12 which could record its patch programming to cassette tape, and I had a Yamaha QX-7 Sequencer which could record its MIDI programming to cassette tape. Obviously, to backup and restore said patches and programs. This was no different than backing up Radio Shack TRS-80 computer files to cassette tape, as in 1980. Yikes, showing my age here.

Anyway, when I first read your question, I was sure the answer was "No". MIDI and audio information are two totally different things. I don't know what "dmx control messages" means, either, but your question needs clarification.

The latter part seems clearly like a "No", although my mind is intrigued with an idea that you may or may not be thinking.

Left channel of a WAV file containing audio recording of MIDI data (yes, as already explained) and the Right channel containing a music track? Yes, by why would you? Would make a strange stereo mix (lol), but if there is something interesting you are trying to achieve, theoretically then the answer seems like "yes".

 

[Bobbonkers]

This is my idea.
I'm a musician in lanzarote using backing tracks and have decided to do a live VH1 pop-up video(info bubbles pop-up at relevant times) show.
I'll create video backing tracks with the "pop-ups" and other footage in the right places and chroma key them over a live camera of us on stage with Arkaos Grand DJ software.
The R channel will be mono audio (click track for the drummer) and I wondered if I could use the L Channel to send Midi to control Vj software and possibly a small light rig.

 

[altitude909]

This is my idea.
I'm a musician in lanzarote using backing tracks and have decided to do a live VH1 pop-up video(info bubbles pop-up at relevant times) show.
I'll create video backing tracks with the "pop-ups" and other footage in the right places and chroma key them over a live camera of us on stage with Arkaos Grand DJ software.
The R channel will be mono audio (click track for the drummer) and I wondered if I could use the L Channel to send Midi to control Vj software and possibly a small light rig.

short answer: no.

Why not just use software that will allow you to automate midi as your backing tracks play?

 

[Bobbonkers]

@dintymoore. I remember that gizmo aswell, it's what got me thinking about this.
@altitude909. Thanks, well sratch that idea then.
Can anyone suggest a new approach to the same problem.
How to composite video over a live camera and sync midi messages to the video preferably on 1 laptop
(dont want much do I?)

 

[cyrano]

The R channel will be mono audio (click track for the drummer) and I wondered if I could use the L Channel to send Midi to control Vj software and possibly a small light rig.

With Max 5 this could be done reliably. But it's not cheap (the soft costs >1.000 € to start with) and it will require a lot of work and some extra hardware. Max 5 knows about Midi, DMX and a lot of other stuff.

But I think your idea was about slimming down your setup, not adding to it

 

[dintymoore]

@dintymoore. I remember that gizmo aswell, it's what got me thinking about this...

Around the same time (1988-89) there was another product advertised called Midi Buddy - not the company with the same name that exists now. It was a box with a hard drive and a digital readout on the front and it was a Standard Midi File Player. It was 19" rack mount, probably 3U, which was huge but it was the first thing of it's kind I ever saw.

I contacted the company over and over for a period of near a year and it turns out that they never made the product, or at least ever made any to sell. They never were able to sell me one.

That made me realize that sometimes when you see ads in mags they are just testing the waters. They're seeing if there's any product interest, and if there's enough they'll go into production.

The even hokier (word?) method is to get tons of people to make down payments (why not payment in full?) and then take that money and go make the product, or even better take the money, buy lots of cocaine and never make it!

It made me realize that just because you see something advertised for sale doesn't mean that it was ever produced, and the same thing may be the case with the MIDI-audio thing we saw back then.

Why not just use something like Cubase that can play movies and send out MIDI, why does it have to be an AVI?

 

[frederic]

It was for a small device that I believe had a regular cassette in it and the claim was that you could record MIDI to it and it would in real time play it back and send out MIDI. I don't recall the manufacturer and it didn't become mainstream, but it was what I think you're asking about.

I used to have one of those, they were made by a British company and were basically bi-directional midi-to-FSK converter. Worked with any tape recorder with a mic/line in and line out jack. I used a mono tape recorder from radio shack I got on sale for like $15 or something like that.

The device also worked very well with my Tascam 244.

I eventually wanted to be able to edit the recorded midi, so I soldered up a midi interface for my Commodore 64 and types in machine code for a basic sequences I got out of a commodore specific magazine.

Eventually I went to a PC with an authentic Roland midi interface card, using cakewalk for DOS.

 

[dintymoore]

I used to have one of those...

Interesting!

Do you remember the manufacturer's name?

BTW I started out sequencing on the C64 too. I had the Sequential Circuits setup with a Six-Trak (which I still have), a DrumTracks and a card they made that plugged into the Commodore. I made a Radio Shack switch so that I could switch between two hard drives so I could play a song while loading another song. Did a lot of gigs with that dinosaur setup around 1983 - 4, then I got a Yamaha QX-1 which was pretty much the cake in 1985.

 

[frederic]

Do you remember the manufacturer's name?

No, but I vaguely remember it being named after a guy. Something like Bill Smith electronics (made up name).

BTW I started out sequencing on the C64 too.

I loved mine, and definitely got a lot of use out of it. The one thing I liked was that the schematics were available as was all the pinouts, so mine had a lot of homemade things attached to it. I upgraded to the 128 and didn't really see that upgrade being worth the money, so eventually I gave it to my sister as a gift and bought myself a Leading Edge XT-compatible (8 Mhz!) with a 360K floppy and a 20mb Seagate ST225 hard drive, and of course the midi interface. I also bought with that an Amdek orange monochrome monitor. Cakewalk looked pretty good on it.

I had the Sequential Circuits setup with a Six-Trak

I had the pleasure of borrowing one from a friend for a project and liked it very much. I wanted the multi-timbral as well but ended up with a Fender Polaris, which is a pretty cool synth. I still have it and much to my amazement it still works.

I made a Radio Shack switch so that I could switch between two hard drives so I could play a song while loading another song. Did a lot of gigs with that dinosaur setup around 1983 - 4, then I got a Yamaha QX-1 which was pretty much the cake in 1985.

I remember the QX-1 - that was a tough device to use.

My C64 didn't have a hard drive but I had two floppies and the proprietary serial dot matrix printer - remember those? They didn't print decenders correctly (g, y, j, p, etc) and raised them. I had a teacher in college whine about that all the time "This is impossible to read" she'd say. "Okay, buy me a Selectric and I'll type it as you want."

Never got that selectric lol.

 

[Bobbonkers]

@dintymoore.

Why not just use something like Cubase that can play movies and send out MIDI, why does it have to be an AVI?

Cubase solves the video/audio/midi sync problems but wont let me composite the video (pop-up info) over the live camera , maybe I'll have to think of using two pc's, one to play and mix the video,midi and audio, then another to use vj software to composite and mix in other stuff.
Cheers Y'all

 

[Bobbonkers]

Found a solution, I use cubase joined via a virtual midi cable to grandvj, works well but I'll have to upgrade my laptop for live gigs