Real drums louder?

[Richard77]

I've mixed down a drumset to stereo. Each of the drums were individually processed (gate, eq, reverb, compressor) beforehand. What I'm wondering is, how came they sound quieter than sampled drums?

I used Drumagog on a few tracks with a 100% sample ratio, and those tracks sound significantly louder than those mixed from real drums. Don't get me wrong here, the real drums were pushed as loud individually as possible.

The peaks and RMS are indentical, yet the real drums sound quieter. I'm puzzled?

The same thing is with sampled precreated drum loops, they're loud as hell (yet sounding airy and not distorted) compared to my drum tracks.
Is this a psychological thing?

 

[Farview]

The samples are processed differently than your tracks were. They are probably compressed more or simply have more energy at frequencies that tend to stick out more. This is most likely why you replaced them in the first place.

The other thing might be phase cancellation between the mics. The samples would not fall pray to phase issues between the different mics around the kit.

 

[noiseportrait]

The samples are processed differently than your tracks were. They are probably compressed more or simply have more energy at frequencies that tend to stick out more. This is most likely why you replaced them in the first place.

The other thing might be phase cancellation between the mics. The samples would not fall pray to phase issues between the different mics around the kit.

Yup, and they were probably recorded through soething like API pre's too, which are famous for their huge drum sound, and I bet they were eq'd to perfection got some nice tape saturation from a studer, and were played by a drummer that knows how to hit drums so that they thwack like they were hit with tree trunks, and sing like an angel. It's really amazing how some drummers can just make the sound of a kit "open up" just in the way they play it. Oh yeah, not to mention that they probably had a drum tech tune the drums to perfection, and recorded them in a huge sounding, well treated room. As well as spending hours micing the drumset.

Add in all of those factors, I would be surprised if somebody could get their drums to sound nearly as huge in their little budget home studios with limited AE experience. Anyone up to the challenge?

 

[Richard77]

I used D-gog mostly because the drummer did not have enough consistency in his playing. The snare sound particularly was too drifting, rims here and there, edge and dead center everywhere else. The sound was quite ok when the hit was ok.

Only that the snare was miked with Shure SM57 in a way too slanting angle, it didn't catch the actual snares enough so the tone is quite plastic with no edge.

And yes, phase cancellation was a problem, had to invert the overheads. Anyone know where to find a decent high pitched snare sample that still has balls? The one I used sounded too fake, and I had to use it a lot for above mentioned reasons.

 

[Richard77]

And one more question, or more of an opinion: which is better

a) drifting (real) snare sound where each hit is different from another
b) consistent (slightly sampled) yet more synthetic sounding beat

Will a, say, 50% mix ratio between the original and the sample pass the audiences' critical ears? Everything else will be real, maybe a little extra snap to the bassdrum from a sample.

The band plays some kind of nu-grunge or stoner rock.

 

[Simman]

And one more question, or more of an opinion: which is better

a) drifting (real) snare sound where each hit is different from another
b) consistent (slightly sampled) yet more synthetic sounding beat

Will a, say, 50% mix ratio between the original and the sample pass the audiences' critical ears? Everything else will be real, maybe a little extra snap to the bassdrum from a sample.

The band plays some kind of nu-grunge or stoner rock.

I got to go with consistent playing every time. IMO, it doesn't matter if the drums are sampled or not, if the timing of the "player" sucks...so too will the song.