Re-takes-am I the only one.

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gospel

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After you guys told me how to use punch in/out I started trying it. But I don't like it. I had rather just do the whole thing over. It seems that when I sing a song I either like everything about the take or there are so many mistakes in it that it is better just to trash the whole thing. Maybe I am just old school and don't want to take advantage of technology. I guess if I was recording a whole band I would take advantage of punch in/out.
 
I'm with you gospel. I keep forgetting how to do it and concentrating on remembering that makes my playing even worse than it normally is.:(
 
Plus, the advantage of digital is that you can fly in parts from other takes later, if you need to fix a section.
 
It's a mental thing...

I think we get used to working a certain way, and the synapses get pretty hard wired. So what may work for one, may be terrible for another. I just finished a :60 second commercial using vocoder on two tracks. I wasn't happy withone clause on one track, yet having to redo the whole track wasn't something I wanted to face because the rest was just what I wanted and vocoding is not always consistent -- so I didn't want to dump 80% good stuff to change 20% of a track... Using the footpedal and punching in/out is a new technique, but it helps feed my delusion that I can learn new things. Even so, if it doesn't feel good for others, then it will likely detract from the performance.

Initially, the learning curve on the VF80 was a tad steep for me because I'd always been used to recording/editing on analogue tape. Using tape, I ALWAYS had to redo a whole take because physical editing took more time than it was worth...

I would think a botched chorus, or guitar solo in the middle of an otherwise great track would be a good spot for doing a punch in, but the levels have to be matched with the surrounding sections, and you do have to get used to waiting then singing/playing with 100% feeling etc...

One thing on the VF80 I haven't used yet, but I think I could REALLY find helpful are the virtual tracks. Something else to learn!
 
Well I finally did something and used punch in/out to fix it. I botched the ending of a song. The rest of the song was without mistakes so I decided I would give the punch a try. It worked flawlessly. It will be the next song I post. A great song called Thief. I still think in the future I'll keep on doing the whole thing over, but if it just the ending I'll use technology.
 
gospel said:
Well I finally did something and used punch in/out to fix it. I botched the ending of a song. The rest of the song was without mistakes so I decided I would give the punch a try. It worked flawlessly. It will be the next song I post. A great song called Thief. I still think in the future I'll keep on doing the whole thing over, but if it just the ending I'll use technology.
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Way to go! It's almost hard to believe how clean it works when you first hear it... Glad it worked for you.
 
I love the punch in/out idea. Using the foot switch is easier than doing it by hand in my opinion. I have great success fixing bad vocal parts and I can do it flawlessly. I have a friend who can't get it right at all. I guess some of us are better puncher in and outers than others. I find the idea of re-recording a whole song because of one or two bad parts rather depressing. I do understand, however, that some people prefer to do that and we should do whatever works for us.
 
The funny thing about punching in is that as a guitarist I find it an excellent way to record a good solo. However, with vocals I tend to agree with Gospel, it's much better most of the time to do the track over. I will record about five takes when doing vocals and then transfer to the pc and comp the vocals to make my perfect track. This works really well and keeps a natural feel. My experience when punching in while doing vocal tracks is it tends to sound like it's punched in, which is probably due to my lack of experience as a singer, because I never have this problem when playing the guitar.
 
Morandae, I agree its not good if you can hear the punch. Sometimes a punch has to be done a few times to get it right. A good vocalist can get the same volume, feel and tonal qualities as the original while doing a punch. Its always nice to have a punch thats flawless and nobody but the singer and I know it happened. Its something I like, but different strokes for different folks.
 
Yep HWB, the key phrase you mentioned is 'a good vocalist', or at least someone who is skilled at recording their voice. One thing is for sure, punching in with digital equipment is so much easier than with the old analog recorders.
 
Let me clarify something here. I know how to do the punch and have used it often and it's not that I don't like the results. You can't really tell where the punch was actually done. Volume is no problem. When I sing I try to live the lyrics and therefore the message that the lyrics are trying to convey comes through better. 9 times out of 10 I do the song the best and the results are the best they can be when I go through the entire song with no mistakes. I guess that's why I finally used the punch on an ending. The song was over, the message was conveyed, but the last note wasn't what I wanted it to be.
 
Sounds cool

This is so weird that you guys are talking about this now. I just did my first recording, and I used my pc. I want to get a mr8 like dads, and aspire to some day. Anyway, I did the guitar in one take, not perfect but I'd live with it. Didn't sing while playing though which was weird and I'm not sure if that wasn't the start of it all. When I did the vox, I couldn't come in on cue to save my life! I've played the song a bunch but just couldn't do it when I was only singing. Anyway, all that to say: I want punch in/out.
-oko
It's almost like cheatin' though right?
 
Gospel, I sing Gospel music too and I appreciate the importance of the message. I agree, if you or anyone else prefers to do a complete song over to correct one or two mistakes, thats your choice. However, you probably would agree with me that in the REAL studios, punching in and out is a very common and normal occurence. There are many ways to do things right and even more ways to do them wrong. Whatever rows your boat. By the way, I appreciated your posts on the "totally Inappropriate" thread.
 
HWB said:
Gospel, I sing Gospel music too and I appreciate the importance of the message. I agree, if you or anyone else prefers to do a complete song over to correct one or two mistakes, thats your choice. However, you probably would agree with me that in the REAL studios, punching in and out is a very common and normal occurence. There are many ways to do things right and even more ways to do them wrong. Whatever rows your boat. By the way, I appreciated your posts on the "totally Inappropriate" thread.
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Thanks. Do you sing with a group?
I have did the punch in/out thing often in pro studios. In my little home studio I'm not paying for studio time so I just do it till I like it.
 
So far I haven't had to use the punch in/out , I've had the fair luck thus far of being able to cut/copy and paste new parts where I've wanted to, with N-tracks. It does appear to have its limits, but I haven't met them yet.
 
Punching in when doing vocals can at times be difficult unless you are doing the punch at the beginning of a verse or chorus. One of the most common methods used is to comp the vocals which does yield good results and maintains the consistency of the tracks feel. Comping involves recording the vocal a number of times, lets say three, and then taking what is best of the three tracks and combining them into one track. What you then have is composite of the three tracks, hence the term comping. For those of you who haven't tried it you may find it a useful alternative to punching in.
 
With what do you comp? Software? I've done something similar with N-tracks.
 
You comp with whatever recording medium you happen to be using, wether it be analog or digital. In your case, you would import all the vocal tracks you have recorded to N-track and listen to each one and try to identify the best parts. Let's say you have two takes of a particular vocal. you may like the second half of take one but not the first half. On the second take you like the first half but not the second. So you would mute the first half of take one . On the second take you would mute the second half. Then render them to a single mono track. You would then have a nice vocal which has the best elements of both takes. This is a very over simplified example. In a real situation you may be working with five or six takes of a vocal and will have to listen to each take to find what parts are the best. It can be time consuming at times but it is well worth the effort. I find this method better for recording vocals than punching in, especially when I am the engineer, the producer and the artist. The tedium of punching in when recording on your own can detract from the actual feel you are trying to convey.
 
It seems this would be possible with the MR8? If so are there any limitations to the conversion? Is it still just a .wav file then? Is the changeover between alterations audible at all?
 
Yes, you could do it in the MR8. But why? You have N-track and it would be a lot easier to do it in the computer where you can see the section you want to mute or keep.
When you render all the parts that you want to keep down to one track it is seamless and will sound like it was done in one take. Cellard, the next time you do a vocal, record it three or four times. Then transfer the wave files to N-track and listen to each track making note of the best parts. Then use the cursor to mute the bad parts and then click the the scissors icon at the top left hand of the task bar. This will silence those parts. Once you have gotten rid of all the bad parts you can then render the good parts down to one track by clicking on the blue CD icon, also at the top left of the screen, and then choose mono track and press start. this will render the good parts to one wave file or track. I hope this makes sense.
 
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